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Thread: Front end / wheel swap

  1. #11
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    The brakes have come a long way since 2008/2009, as well, so keep that in mind. I was smoking the stock brakes on the 1125r at Eagles Canyon at my skill level, never mind someone actually fast. Today I'm significantly quicker than in 2009 and yet I find the brakes work great.

    The Nissin 2015 fatback pads, finned rotors and especially new mounting hardware all helps tremendously and more or less fixed the Buell brake system at club racing levels. It just took a while to get there. In the XB era, the bikes were basically no faster than an SV650, so the amount of energy the brake system had to dissipate just wasn't that high.

    Keep in mind even in the Eslick/DSB era they were already using heavily modified systems compared to stock -- better mounting hardware, milled out calipers for better cooling, and so on. When May was in AMA one of the club guys took close up pictures of the brake on his bike and the rotor mounting hardware was all non-stock. It looked like they had milled the washers and drive bushings from copper -- probably some esoteric BeCu alloy based on the comments from Badweb. The WSBK stuff years later was even more esoteric, and there's pictures of it floating around if you look for them -- pencil milled, prototype one-off calipers, vented rotors, etc. And, it was well documented rotors and mounting hardware were "one use"... meaning one race... at that level.

    That Blake guy you see on Badweb was/is a total blowhard that took the defense of the Buell designs, facts or not. Some of the things Buell did were genius. Some of them, like the brake, just put a lot of resources into solving a problem a different way that was already acceptably solved. And, here we are, ~15 years after the introduction of the ZTL with a brake that, more or less, is a functional equal to the existing systems.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kneepucker View Post
    Damn.....you can buy a lot of rotors and pads for that much.....
    but then I just think about the additional weight I'd be putting back into gyroscopic effect.
    Keep in mind there might be no difference because of the moment of inertia. The way to test this would be to spin both wheels on an axle to a speed they both can be held up by just one end of the axle and then pull level to the ground some distance and measure the force required to do that.

    BadWeb has had these debates endlessly over the years. When guys started putting wheels on the scale and actually measuring things, generally what was found what a whole lot of "nice theory" with no practical differences between the solutions.

  3. #13
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    It worked becase they change pads and rotor every session. Pretty much covers the cost of a front end replacement in a single day. The race guys hated the Front brakes. They could not change or they would.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJB View Post
    It worked becase they change pads and rotor every session. Pretty much covers the cost of a front end replacement in a single day. The race guys hated the Front brakes. They could not change or they would.
    No, they eventually did change them.Name:  canepa_phillip_island_test_big.jpg
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    All I know is that I destroy pads and rotors on my CBR1000RR, so I'm interested to see what my first trackday does to my EBR this coming spring! To makes matters worse/more fun, I was hoping to reduce engine braking because the clutch sucks.... FML
    #811 CMRA
    2014 EBR 1190RX #302

  5. #15
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    Interesting, AMA guys could not change front end. I feel I have not yet pushed overly hard on the bike yet, but first time out the EBC pads had terrible stopping power. Switched to SBS, which were much better, but by the end of the day the rotors had so much brake residue on them that the front wheel was dragging bad. Sanded the rotors down and went out for a second day on the SBS pads. Not as good as the first day, and faded towards the end of a session. Last straw was when the lever suddenly puled all the way to the bar when the brake fluid boiled. Time for EBR to give up on this concept. Nice try, but know when to quit.

    I also have a CBR 1000rr race bike with a similar paint scheme to yours kneepucker. I would like to figure out to get a CBR front end on the 1190
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #16
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