EBR in World Superbike

[Scott]

Here's a way to put a positive spin on it: "In their very first practice session in WSBK ever, EBR was less than 2 seconds off the top BMW and dead even with the 2nd BMW." If I had suggested such a thing a couple years ago, heck, a couple weeks ago how many of us would have thought that was great?

Most motorcycle companies (*cough* Harley *cough*) wouldn't have the balls to get out there and would fail miserably if they tried. If they can make it through this weekend even close to some of the much more experienced bikes and riders, that will be a solid starting point.

[Classax]

I think we will see improvements between now and race 1 and certainly by race 2. How can you be down 11% in top speed and only 4.4% slower (give or take) per lap than record at a track like Phillip Island? Its a really fast flowing track. I think they have some real issues to overcome but they aren't that far from the goal either.

[Doosh]

Here's a way to put a positive spin on it: "In their very first practice session in WSBK ever, EBR was less than 2 seconds off the top BMW and dead even with the 2nd BMW." If I had suggested such a thing a couple years ago, heck, a couple weeks ago how many of us would have thought that was great?

Oh, I could believe that. How many laps is this race? Do the math.

The thing is, even single hundredths off the pace results in a race that's not even close visually. At 186MPH, you are moving roughly 2 feet every hundredth of a second. Add that up over 20-30 laps and in a race distance that's absolutely huge.

So, while 2 seconds doesn't seem like much, the gap actually needs to be in the thousandths to be a "photo finish", and that's just for one lap! The accumulation of gap over the race distance will be significant.

If the race leaders are running 1:30s, and EBR is off the pace by 4 seconds, one must anticipate the possibility they will be lapped. I don't know the race distance, but this isn't hard to calculate.

I'm absolutely excited EBR is in WSBK -- I think it's what they need to do to develop that bike -- but let's be honest with ourselves this inaugural season about realistic outcomes. And, certainly, don't expect a bias press who's job is to appeal to the majority to sell ads to give much notice to a tiny sliver of a market share boutique like EBR just yet.

[Scott]

Oh, I could believe that. How many laps is this race? Do the math.

The thing is, even single hundredths off the pace results in a race that's not even close visually. At 186MPH, you are moving roughly 2 feet every hundredth of a second. Add that up over 20-30 laps and in a race distance that's absolutely huge.

So, while 2 seconds doesn't seem like much, the gap actually needs to be in the thousandths to be a "photo finish", and that's just for one lap! The accumulation of gap over the race distance will be significant.

If the race leaders are running 1:30s, and EBR is off the pace by 4 seconds, one must anticipate the possibility they will be lapped. I don't know the race distance, but this isn't hard to calculate.

I'm absolutely excited EBR is in WSBK -- I think it's what they need to do to develop that bike -- but let's be honest with ourselves this inaugural season about realistic outcomes. And, certainly, don't expect a bias press who's job is to appeal to the majority to sell ads to give much notice to a tiny sliver of a market share boutique like EBR just yet.

Sure. Absolutely. But you're focusing on the question: "How far behind of the competition are they?" and I am trying to find a silver lining after a disappointing first practice session and looking at the question: "How far ahead of realistic expectations, based on history, are they?"

I'm going back to the last days of Buell when the highest performance bike they had was the 1125R and that bike would not have been able to show up on a WSBK track. Then Buell got shut down and the idea of an American Superbike that would ever be able to run with the top bikes seemed like something that would never happen.

Now just a few years later we've got EBR slapping their balls on the line and putting bikes into a series that, by any logical rational thinking, they have absolutely no place being.

So I'm just trying to get over my initial, emotional disappointment at seeing they're not even close and trying to look at it from a broader, more rational perspective.

And while some might be quick to say: "The bike can't do it. They need to go back to the drawing board." I think we can dismiss that notion when we look at the fact that they are working with a bike that hasn't yet been developed with WSBK rules in mind and the team has never worked together on a track the riders have never seen.

When I look at the BMW's - bikes that are clearly up to the task - and see that they aren't dramatically outperforming the EBRs (and, sure, BMW is no longer doing a factory effort, but the teams and riders are still skilled professionals ), that tells me that the bike is giving them a solid platform to build on. As the team learns the riders and bikes and as the riders learn the tracks and as the bikes are developed for the series, this team will find it much easier to shave time off than the top riders who are already operating at a high level.

So sure, they're going to be pretty far back this weekend, but as a fan, that's no reason to jump off a ledge. I'm just going to watch and enjoy the baby steps and figure an 18th place in WSBK is cooler than a podium in AMA - particularly considering how it will help them build for the future.

[Doosh]

And while some might be quick to say: "The bike can't do it. They need to go back to the drawing board." I think we can dismiss that notion when we look at the fact that they are working with a bike that hasn't yet been developed with WSBK rules in mind and the team has never worked together on a track the riders have never seen.

I've never suggested that. I've suggested the EBR team simply needs the same kind of time and experience other teams have required when campaigning a debut WSBK effort. It's going to be a couple of seasons before the the EBR is running mid-pack.

I think we are close to the same page, but I can't help but look at it in terms of overall competitiveness, because that's the objective measure. If racing were judged by artistic effort, it would be called ice dancing.

[Scott]

I've never suggested that. I've suggested the EBR team simply needs the same kind of time and experience other teams have required when campaigning a debut WSBK effort. It's going to be a couple of seasons before the the EBR is running mid-pack.

I think we are close to the same page, but I can't help but look at it in terms of overall competitiveness, because that's the objective measure. If racing were judged by artistic effort, it would be called ice dancing.

I didn't mean to imply that was your perspective - I'm talking with you but also arguing against other things I'm reading as I cruise around the internet. And I agree 4.6 seconds off the fastest bike and 2 seconds off fifteenth place isn't competitive. But everything considered, I would classify it as an acceptable starting point.

Based on what we now know, here are my two objective goals for the weekend: A qualifying time for one of the two riders within 3.5 seconds of the top qualifying time and a finish of 18th place or better. Based on the level of competition and the situation, I will be happy if they hit one of those two metrics and very happy if they hit both. And then I'll raise the bar for the next round.

[Doosh]

I would suggest just making the show is a big win for the team. They are likely to get lapped come race day.

And don't think I'm not sympathetic. I earned myself a solid LAST EFFING PLACE in Formula-1 Expert this past weekend, and damn near got lapped myself doing it.

[Classax]

I would suggest just making the show is a big win for the team. They are likely to get lapped come race day.

And don't think I'm not sympathetic. I earned myself a solid LAST EFFING PLACE in Formula-1 Expert this past weekend, and damn near got lapped myself doing it.

I think people fail to understand the point of this WSBK effort. Its to continue the track incubation of a breed of EBR streetbike, and advertise HERO to the world. In Doosh's case the level of effort and talent needed to finish last in that class is beyong the abilities of 99.99909% of the world. Having been there to watch, its not like he was limping around the track, with one cyclinder in the grave. 98% of the racers there would kill to have a bike and laptimes as good. He just happen to be on a track with the 2 percent of racers who have time in class and money in the bank to run faster(for now)! EBR is the same way. I suspect they will only be about 2.8 to 3 seconds off the lead(which will break the lap record) and be in 16-20th spot. I would not risk piossible destroying the bikes with limited spares in the test, or even practices or even superpole. Data collection and then a month of bench testing before round two is the objecive. You'll get all the press you need for just being on the grid in Round 1.

[Classax]

( Sarcasm font enabled.... No wonder we're slow, Geoff isn't even getting his knee down ... Sarcasm font disabled)

[Hughlysses]

Crap! Geoff crashed in today's session and broke his collar bone. Likely out for the weekend: http://www.cyclenews.com/671/24010/R...ip-Island.aspx