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Thread: EBR in World Superbike

  1. #21
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    Notice Erik himself wasn't anywhere to be seen at the AIMExpo. That seems pretty odd given what a big deal the release of the bike was. Perhaps he's been out talking to potential riders?

    On a somewhat related note, I noticed a post from a European Buell group on Facebook yesterday that regarding Buell's 30th anniversary in November:

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    It sure seems like EBR wouldn't let that date go unnoticed. Who knows- maybe Erik's getting ready for another big announcement or something?

  2. #22
    EBRforum Expert Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
    It sure seems like EBR wouldn't let that date go unnoticed. Who knows- maybe Erik's getting ready for another big announcement or something?

    Is there a specific date? If so, would it be when he first started planning to build the RW750, or when he welded the first two frame sections, or when he started it up for the first time, or when he raced it for the first time, when he filed for incorporation? I would guess that if you asked Erik himself, he would have a hard time saying what day Buell actually started. So that group can probably use whatever date they choose.

  3. #23
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    Man its official http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...pro-superbike/ .Loosing National Guard is a big blow. I thought sure the two year TV deal with CBS would attract more sponsors. MJ wants to get into NASCAR. Eslick has had troubles off track but he can RIDE the 1190 and we all know Hayden can run the pace if the equipment stays together. Come on HERO pick up Eslick for AMA and send Rodger to WSBK.

  4. #24
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    I wonder if this isn't a result of the current budget mess in Washington. DOD is still operating under "sequestration" which resulted in automatic, across-the-board budget cuts. Maybe the National Guard suddenly doesn't have the money necessary to sponsor something like this.

    It does seem like the series is in trouble if another big sponsor can't be found quickly.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughlysses View Post
    I wonder if this isn't a result of the current budget mess in Washington. DOD is still operating under "sequestration" which resulted in automatic, across-the-board budget cuts. Maybe the National Guard suddenly doesn't have the money necessary to sponsor something like this.

    It does seem like the series is in trouble if another big sponsor can't be found quickly.
    I remember something maybe a year ago when some politicians were complaining about military sponsorships (I think it was specifically related to Nascar), and I remember at the time thinking that the AMA and Jordan sponsorships could be in jeopardy.

    I'm sure that even if the money is there, it doesn't look right spending money on things like Nascar and AMA when people are getting laid off, so it was almost inevitable and hopefully the AMA was considering contingencies.

    I definitely think they're in trouble, but if they keep pluggin away, I think they'll survive. If I were the AMA, I'd be trying to keep EBR there in at least some capacity. I think an American bike raises a lot of people's interest.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I think an American bike raises a lot of people's interest.
    I don't. In my race club of 600+ members, I am the only one campaigning a Buell.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doosh View Post
    I don't. In my race club of 600+ members, I am the only one campaigning a Buell.
    I think we need a separate AMA( if there is still going to be one) thread.

    Buells have never before been on level ground with the big four from a racing, manufacturing or value standpoint. They have always handled well but the truth is they never had competitive power. 1125r vs 600s for example in Daytona years ago. Buell have always been GREAT street bikes. With the 1190RS and RX we see a machine that can compete as a racer, quality, and power with the big four and the boutiques. Racing cost money and here to fore you had to spend way more money to get a Buell on the grid. There simply are cheaper options. Not necessarily better, just cheaper. You don't see many RSV4's club racing either. Heck you don't even seem them in Super Stock 1000. Not many RC8R either. They cost more to get on the grid than a GSXR1CBRR-ZX. Both of those are stellar bikes. Ducati has bravado but I believe the RX plus the EBR story will make for great press. If the bike is a top ten finisher every race, it will be mentioned every race, If we have a rider who is a big personality and daring on track it will be pandemonium.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Classax View Post
    They have always handled well but the truth is they never had competitive power. 1125r vs 600s for example in Daytona years ago.
    I'm not sure I would universally agree. At least in DSB, the opposite was the case. The 1125r probably made the most power (just barely), but was heavy and lumbersome compared to the 600cc bikes. Only Eslick ever rode one especially successfully, and he also won the class on a 600.

    With the 1190RS and RX we see a machine that can compete as a racer, quality, and power with the big four and the boutiques. Racing cost money and here to fore you had to spend way more money to get a Buell on the grid. There simply are cheaper options. Not necessarily better, just cheaper.
    Again, I'm not sure I would agree. I certainly prefer to race a Buell. And, I prefer twins. But twins are down on power compared to inline 4 bikes, even given the concessions for displacement given to them. In the CMRA, the 1125r is permitted in the "B" classes, alongside 750cc multis and other 1,000cc twins. The 1125r is completely uncompetitive in superstock trim, largely because of the brakes and weight of the machine, and reasonably competitive in superbike trim where a DSB-spec built motor helps make up for other deficiencies, and the issues with the OEM brake and chassis can be corrected. I am generally racing in the various heavyweight classes, where the 1125r is at a huge disadvantage in stock trim on power, on brakes, on all kinds of things.

    I think the 1190's competitiveness remains to be seen. Certainly a lot of the shortcomings of the 1125r have been corrected, but the ZX-10 and BMW are serious machines, and won't be easy to beat.

    You don't see many RSV4's club racing either. Heck you don't even seem them in Super Stock 1000. Not many RC8R either. They cost more to get on the grid than a GSXR1CBRR-ZX. Both of those are stellar bikes. Ducati has bravado but I believe the RX plus the EBR story will make for great press. If the bike is a top ten finisher every race, it will be mentioned every race, If we have a rider who is a big personality and daring on track it will be pandemonium.
    For what it's worth, I can think of at least 5 RSV4 machines in the CMRA, 4 RC8 machines, countless Ducati and of course a tsunami of Japanese hardware. I remain the only EBR...

    And, at least for now, the 1190 isn't a good club choice. One, it's not available until January, and two, none of the race stuff you need for it to make it race legal is broadly available yet. Someone like me that can refashion EBR parts from the 1125 kit like a race legal bellypan -- sure, I can get one on the track -- but it will be a season or so before the RX is a really good club choice, IMHO.

    None of the tuners know the platform yet, either. At least in the CMRA, I'd be the only one with starting point numbers, and I'll probably be rookie expert next year. I can feel the season of DFL coming my way...

    I'm not trying to be a total downer here, but let's keep this in proper perspective. It's going to take a bit for the bike to catch on. Let's hope it does!

  9. #29
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    Doosh I may have spoken too glowingly there. I completely agree with you. Especially with regard to the 1125r. I was speaking about in the WSBK series. I have a good friend who races and RSV4 in CMRA and their are several strong RC8R's. From what I saw of the few races I've seen the RS on the track in WERA( just 4 times,)it appeared to be on par in terms of power. I have always found Buell to handle like a bike half a class down, way better than a 1K but not quite as well as a 600. Yes it will take at least a season for the go fast goodies to trickle down to the club crowd. But then again maybe not since EBR is now a major supplier of those parts. I don't think the factory effort in WSBK will run last based on what we have seen in the AMA but yes its going to be a long hard road!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doosh View Post
    I don't. In my race club of 600+ members, I am the only one campaigning a Buell.
    Buells have always been a hard fit in racing. They don't fit nicely into the racing classes and are underpowered against the heavyweights and people feel like they're 'cheater bikes' against the 600's. They were also produced in very small numbers vs. the competition and now that they're defunct, I'm sure few people want to buy one to race. It's a lot easier and cheaper to race an R6 than a Buell. But that's Buell and we're talking about EBR which hasn't even started yet. I'm sure that when the RX's start becoming available people will be taking them to the track.

    But I wasn't talking about Buell and I wasn't talking about club-racing. I was talking about EBR and the AMA.

    The AMA needs to get people interested in the races. Who do people root for and why? I like twins and when I used to watch the old AMA races before the Buell or EBR were factors, I rooted for the Ducatis (when they were running) because I wanted to see something different than the same-old, same-old Japanese inline 4s.

    Having an American bike competing in an American racing series gives viewers something to be interested in and root for. Next time you go to an AMA race, take a look around. One thing that I always find interesting is how many Harley riders show up. Who are they rooting for? If there's an EBR out there, I'd bet a lot of them would be rooting for it.

    The AMA needs to do many things to get new viewers and keep the ones they have. An American bike would be one of 50 things they need to do to bring more fans, but I think it's one of the bigger things.

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