EBR in World Superbike

[Scott]

It was suggested on the thread at Badweb that braking problems could in fact be causing engine problems. If a rider reaches for a handful of brake at the end of the straight and doesn't have enough, it could cause him to overrev as he downshifts entering the turn, leading to broken springs/keepers, dropped valves, etc.

I strongly suspect that while we've seen negligible improvements in the WSBK's team's performances, EBR has been working on all this behind the scenes. Mark Miller raves about the performance and braking of the EBR 1190RS he road at Isle of Man last month (listen to audio interview I posted in another thread), and notes the braking performance was vastly superior to what he experienced on the EBR 1190RS he rode last year at Macau.

Last weekend Geoff was running an "improved" engine which they conserved for this weekend. Geoff posted to Facebook yesterday "This weekend will be interesting, one way or another. All or nothing. " Sounds like it won't be business as usual this weekend.

Geoff's practice looked very good and Aaron's was also better than typical. I'm sure some of that is the track familiarity, but I'm hoping it's also that engine improvement that was apparently just incorporated.

The braking/engine connection is interesting, but wouldn't we have seen AMA engine issues if that were the case? I suspect the engine issues are simply the team pushing too hard and pushing the engine beyond its capabilities. Hopefully the new engine can handle the higher revving without blowing up.

Keep your fingers crossed for our first Super-Pole!

[Hughlysses]

The gist of the discussion there suggests that WSBK tracks are generally more flowing and faster than AMA tracks resulting in higher straightaway speeds and putting more stress on the brakes. I can see that this wouldn't necessarily be a "linear" thing, a slight increase in maximum speeds might result in a huge increase in brake fade as the brakes are pushed past their limits. You wouldn't have to run into a corner too fast but once, downshift and instantly you've grenaded the engine.

At any rate, good FP1. Geoff's significantly quicker and faster than the other EBR's and qualified 16th for that session. All 3 EBR's seem to be well within the minimum speed to qualify. Now the next big question is "will Geoff's engine hold together for another 2 practice sessions and 2 race?". Heck, maybe the engine's still got power he hasn't used (it might make sense to hold back as much as possible in practice) and we'll REALLY see something later in the weekend. At the very least, hopefully he'll make Superpole which will be a major milestone for their effort.

Go EBR!

[Scott]

The gist of the discussion there suggests that WSBK tracks are generally more flowing and faster than AMA tracks resulting in higher straightaway speeds and putting more stress on the brakes. I can see that this wouldn't necessarily be a "linear" thing, a slight increase in maximum speeds might result in a huge increase in brake fade as the brakes are pushed past their limits. You wouldn't have to run into a corner too fast but once, downshift and instantly you've grenaded the engine.

At any rate, good FP1. Geoff's significantly quicker and faster than the other EBR's and qualified 16th for that session. All 3 EBR's seem to be well within the minimum speed to qualify. Now the next big question is "will Geoff's engine hold together for another 2 practice sessions and 2 race?". Heck, maybe the engine's still got power he hasn't used (it might make sense to hold back as much as possible in practice) and we'll REALLY see something later in the weekend. At the very least, hopefully he'll make Superpole which will be a major milestone for their effort.

Go EBR!

I was watching the live timing yesterday and it was (as usual) a frustrating situation. It just seems like they're always in the pits and never turning laps. Geoff didn't make any gains in the second session and it went down to the last 5 minutes of the 3rd session before he seemed to make any progress. And then he was shaving time off with the last 3 or 4 laps he did. Why couldn't he have been making that kind of progress all day?

Pegram seemed to do relatively well and was running close to May which is cool . . . but it makes you wonder what the heck the WSBK teams have been doing all year. How is it possible that Pegram can take an AMA spec. bike on unfamiliar tires and match bikes that have been racing and developing for WSBK all year?!?!

It reinforces the idea that the team just isn't making progress. Which is frustrating. But also points to the idea that if (through some undefined set of circumstances) they actually COULD make progress, there's no reason they couldn't be competitive.

[Hughlysses]

Overall yesterday was pretty frustrating, but it sure started out well. THAT at least was a change. It looks like Aaron's engine broke during FP3; I forget if he has any spares left or not(?).

I'm just wondering what kind of strategy they're likely to be employing, especially with Geoff. We know they built a special "improved" engine and raced as little as possible last weekend to conserve it for this weekend. Given that, how do you use it this weekend? I guess it'd make sense to take it as easy as possible in the practice sessions and save it for the race. OTOH, their stated goal is to make Superpole. Clearly, they've got to step up quite a bit to achieve that. Geoff knocked about 1/2 second/lap off his times in 3 sessions yesterday and he'd have to knock at least another ~1 second/lap off today to make Superpole.

So, do you risk blowing the engine to make Superpole and then risk blowing the engine during Superpole to qualify well and achieve a stated goal, or do you hold something back so you can make the race, although in a significantly worse starting position, hoping you can get a decent race finish?

[Scott]

Overall yesterday was pretty frustrating, but it sure started out well. THAT at least was a change. It looks like Aaron's engine broke during FP3; I forget if he has any spares left or not(?).

I'm just wondering what kind of strategy they're likely to be employing, especially with Geoff. We know they built a special "improved" engine and raced as little as possible last weekend to conserve it for this weekend. Given that, how do you use it this weekend? I guess it'd make sense to take it as easy as possible in the practice sessions and save it for the race. OTOH, their stated goal is to make Superpole. Clearly, they've got to step up quite a bit to achieve that. Geoff knocked about 1/2 second/lap off his times in 3 sessions yesterday and he'd have to knock at least another ~1 second/lap off today to make Superpole.

So, do you risk blowing the engine to make Superpole and then risk blowing the engine during Superpole to qualify well and achieve a stated goal, or do you hold something back so you can make the race, although in a significantly worse starting position, hoping you can get a decent race finish?

I would hope that they would do enough bench-work with the engines prior to the races that there aren't any big surprises Sure, the actual race is going to produce some different stresses than the bench, but they should have pretty good idea of the comfortable RPM limits before getting out on the track.

While I was (as always) hoping for more dramatic progress, Geoff should be starting tomorrow better than he has all season. My bright spot of the weekend so far is Cory West who has been doing a great job with a tight budget. I sort of wish Cory was riding instead of Aaron in WSBK. They probably could have done similarly this year, but Cory could have more of a future. I'd like to see them moving toward younger riders who can build for the future.

Also interesting to note that Josh Hayes would have qualified 16th in WSBK, so that help to illustrate how tough the field is (and shows it's not just EBR's engine configuration or brakes holding them back).

[Hughlysses]

Well, Geoff didn't make Superpole, but all the EBR's are qualified, so that's good.

NOW to see if Geoff's been holding back all weekend. Fingers crossed....

[Hughlysses]

*** SPOILER ALERT ***









Aaron apparently broke with 10 laps left, Larry broke with 3 laps left, and Geoff improved a few positions and finished in 19th. Larry was actually the fastest EBR up until he left the race.

Still one more WSBK race and the lone AMA Superbike race to go. 19th is a decent showing by Geoff, but nothing to write home about. Cory may the best hope for a good showing for EBR this weekend.

[Hughlysses]

*** SPOILER ALERT ***

EDIT: race 2 NOT over. Back under green.

[Hughlysses]

On a related note, here's a very good 20+ minute interview with Erik from Laguna Seca. He answers a lot of questions about this year's WSBK effort and where they're going in the future:

http://speedcitypodcast.com/speedcast-84-eirk-buell/

[Scott]

Well if you just look at the finish order, it doesn't seem any different from past races, but Geoff (and Larry) finally seemed to be doing something. They were running within 3 seconds of the top bikes and within 1 second of the mid-pack riders and they haven't done nearly that well yet this season.

It's probably mostly attributable to the lack of high speed straights plus track familiarity, but hopefully they're figuring some other things out as well.

I hope they'll stick it out next year, and if they do I'd like to see them bring in a young rider to take Aaron's place. It might be interesting to see them give a young rider a chance to finish out the season, and if he can do something, give him a contract for next year. Otherwise look for someone else.