Rip 1190sx

[MrSix]

[gdisaac07]

lol yeah... when I first posted about the failure on FB hooo boy did I get hit with gulls. My plan is to tear it down, assess the damage and rebuild. I'd thought about doing the LASLEEVE Resleeve thing but I'm not sure how that works given these cylinders aren't sleeved as I understand sleeveing. the jug, jacket and cylinder are all aluminum and the cylinder wall has a coating
of NI SI C (Nickle Silicon Carbon) plated on. When I think sleeving, I think of a machine shop pressing out old cylinders and then pressing in new ones. I'd have to talk to them

It's a chance to learn a lot about these engines. That's worth more than the money I'd get for parts.

You are correct. The cylinders have no liner and are one complete piece. However, they didn't choose super high quality aluminum for the cylinders, and didn't sleeve them. This has gains in thermal efficiency, but is inferior for strength, especially at the spigot (the bottom part of the cylinder where it interfaces with the bottom end of the engine). These cracks develop and radiate up, where they cause the piston to grab and the rod to break.

What LA Sleeve is going to do is mill out the existing cylinders, add in the spun-cast ductile iron sleeves, port everything, and then give it back. This newly sleeved cylinder will be much, much stronger, if a small amount less efficient for heat. It also means that compression can be increased in the future with a new piston and rod combination, as the big bore kit will be (the RS runs at 13.6:1, the RX at 13.4:1).

Keep in mind that LA Sleeve already has cylinders in-house that have been re-sleeved and tested.

[MrSix]

You are correct. The cylinders have no liner and are one complete piece. However, they didn't choose super high quality aluminum for the cylinders, and didn't sleeve them. This has gains in thermal efficiency, but is inferior for strength, especially at the spigot (the bottom part of the cylinder where it interfaces with the bottom end of the engine). These cracks develop and radiate up, where they cause the piston to grab and the rod to break.

What LA Sleeve is going to do is mill out the existing cylinders, add in the spun-cast ductile iron sleeves, port everything, and then give it back. This newly sleeved cylinder will be much, much stronger, if a small amount less efficient for heat. It also means that compression can be increased in the future with a new piston and rod combination, as the big bore kit will be (the RS runs at 13.6:1, the RX at 13.4:1).

Keep in mind that LA Sleeve already has cylinders in-house that have been re-sleeved and tested.

Thank you for the clarification. That sounds outstanding.

[Cooter]

Wow MrSix, that certainly took a turn for the better. I'm happy it worked out in your favor and really impressed that EBR/LAP stepped up like that. Happy you have the skill set to pop a motor in there yourself as well.

I couldn't agree more that most peoples tendency to try and get the oil level to within a ****hair of the full mark causes many, mis-diagnosed problems. Have fun with your new baby... again.... haha.

[MrSix]

Wow MrSix, that certainly took a turn for the better. I'm happy it worked out in your favor and really impressed that EBR/LAP stepped up like that. Happy you have the skill set to pop a motor in there yourself as well.

I couldn't agree more that most peoples tendency to try and get the oil level to within a ****hair of the full mark causes many, mis-diagnosed problems. Have fun with your new baby... again.... haha.

Thanks! I'm glad it worked out as well. I learned a bunch about the bike. I'm really glad EBR posted all of those tech videos. Those were super helpful. Taking it apart and put it back together gave me more of an appreciation for the engineering of the bike. I wouldn't call it easy to work on. But then again, everything is hard the first time.

[White SX]

Originally Posted by gdisaac07
“What LA Sleeve is going to do is mill out the existing cylinders, add in the spun-cast ductile iron sleeves, port everything, and then give it back.”

These engines aren’t two strokes so haven’t a clue about them “porting everything”.

Don't assume that sleeving is going to be a big plus. I don’t have a cylinder in my hands to look at so just speaking generally.
If your information on the cylinder is correct about it being a one piece casting. Your taking a one piece casting and machining a minimum of 3/16 of material from the bore, how much is left? Also now have two different metals with two different expansion rates in a cylinder that wasn’t originally designed for a sleeve.
Just saying this might not be the panacea your looking for.

Originally Posted by gdisaac07
“Keep in mind that LA Sleeve already has cylinders in-house that have been re-sleeved and tested.”

Any details on this testing and to what extent?

[gdisaac07]

These engines aren’t two strokes so haven’t a clue about them “porting everything”.

This is their installation process: https://www.lasleeve.com/downloads/c...stallation.pdf

Don't assume that sleeving is going to be a big plus. I don’t have a cylinder in my hands to look at so just speaking generally.
If your information on the cylinder is correct about it being a one piece casting. Your taking a one piece casting and machining a minimum of 3/16 of material from the bore, how much is left? Also now have two different metals with two different expansion rates in a cylinder that wasn’t originally designed for a sleeve.
Just saying this might not be the panacea your looking for.

LA Sleeve has a few of these cylinders in-house. Also, after further discussion, I think that a 108mm/109mm bore might achieve the same thermal efficiency as the stock 106mm as the mass of the iron will be decreased.

Any details on this testing and to what extent?

I do not have details on what was tested, however I can find out from LA Sleeve.

[White SX]

Air cooled Two stroke sleeving Instructions.

Your thermal effficiancy statement makes no sense.

Been some time since I dealt with LA Sleeve but they didn’t do engine building or Dyno testing.

Thinking your sticking your neck out and going to be a beta tester.

Good luck!

[MrSix]

Just because I think it's funny... I gotta tell you this: I created an unintentional throttle limiter with the top bandclamp on the front cylinder. Probably for the best. I just noticed it last night and corrected it.

[zviadi]

Now as to the failure: I purchased the bike with 372 miles on it. I did the oil change at 620 miles. I caught the oil in an empty catch pan and set it aside. When the failure happened, I had to clean and arrange my garage to accommodate disassembly which means I dumped that catch pan into a 1.6 gallon jug. The catch pan,which had only the EBR 620 mile oil and maybe some fork oil from my zx10r nearly filled that jug, conservatively I'd say 4.5 quarts.
Someone over filled the oil And I think the reason for that may be found in the manual itself. I know there is a thread here about checking the oil.

Glad that everything ended well with the new engine.
My 2 cents.
I'm absolutely sure that it's not the oil level. I pour oil about half an inch below the top mark, the motorcycle stands on the side stand. For 3 years of owning EBR 1190RX, I never checked the oil level for hot, only cold on the side stand before start engine (I'm too lazy start the engine for this procedure).
With active driving on high revs, excess oil will fly out through the crankcase breath system (below airbox) and will flow on the left side of the engine. It's not as scary as it seems. Twice the oil level fell below the lower mark and flashing pressure lamp. Filled the required amount.
Mileage is 17300. Driving at 9000 revs or high. Use Motul 20W50, oil and oil filter change every 3125 miles. Fuel is 95 euro (analogue of american 91). Dash firmware from 2014 (two version). The first year run at negative temperatures and in snowfall (russian autumn is cold). Always warm up the engine before the fan is activated, including warm ambient temperature.

I think that the cause of engine failure is tuning and non-standard ECU. Mine is full stock.