1190RS vs 1190RX What will be the difference?

[Jon / AF1 Racing]

According to already released details, the 1190RX is going to share the same frame, same swingarm, same engine, and the same rear subframe.

So the big question: How to save $20k with wheels, suspension, bodywork and electronics.

1)Wheels - The most expensive magnesium wheels would be about $4000 for the pair. A pair of cast aluminum wheels, maybe cost of about $600 - Savings of $3400

2)Suspension - A full setup of Ohlins will run you around $4000 as well for the front and rear. A pair of Showa forks, and a matching level shock will run you about $800 - Savings $3200

3)Bodywork - A full carbon bodywork set ads a $4000 retail premium to the 1190RS. Seems rather pricey, but we will stick with that number for the sake of argument - Savings $0 since we are not comparing the carbon edition.

4)Electronics - A serious datalogging and fully programmable electronics package can easily set you back $10k in the racing world. Take that down to consumer level, and we might be looking at $1500 worth of equipment. Savings $8500

Tally that up and I can see how the 1190RS is an extra $20k. There is a lot more to this equation, such as production costs in relation to quantity, engineering costs spread over a few vs. many units, etc.

Whatever the actual numbers may be, the 1190RX s going to be the same potent bike, just a different level of components.

If anyone has actual specs and prices on the components used on the 1190RS, please share.

[methyman]

What about a real seat versus that thin pan that the 1190RS has?

[Scott]

There is a lot more to this equation, such as production costs in relation to quantity, engineering costs spread over a few vs. many units, etc.

I think this is the key.

Imagine a supplier that has to invest $20,000 in tooling and set-up costs to make a certain part. Labor and materials for each part run $5 no matter how many parts are made. Making 100 of those parts will cost $20,500 total or $205 per part.

Now make 5000 and the cost will be $45,000 total or $9 per part for the exact same part.



As for the bike, I'm guessing the exhaust may be simplified into a smaller, neater single unit rather than the somewhat awkward two stage unit.

Traction control? There have been some rumors that traction control is coming, but will there be street electronics or will it be a race only system? My guess would be the basic bike won't have any fancy electronics, but future, higher priced variations might.

And I'm curious if there will be a second generation, limited run 1190RS (or some other designation maybe 1190RX LTD or something) that would incorporate some things they've learned but still use the high end components for AMA racing.

WSBK allows swapping out suspensions etc. for higher end units but AMA limits modifications. They could continue to run the current 1190RS with tweaks here and there for the foreseeable future, but I have to imagine they'd like to incorporate some improvements beyond what they can do with current AMA homologation limits.

[boohoo]

Will the engine be the same? There are a lot of high end parts in the RS maybe the RX will be a bit more like a big bore 1125 without all the titanium theres a few $ saved

[Doosh]

I don't see the point in "good" suspension in an OEM. You are just going to replace it, anyway, so why raise the cost of the bike for average stuff when there's no way they would deliver the machine with something good like AK-Gas, anyway?

Put the cheapest thing possible on it. Any way I can buy one without any suspension, no lights, no title, no mirrors, no exhaust, etc. and all the other crap I'm just going to take off and throw away anyway?

[Jon / AF1 Racing]

Will the engine be the same? There are a lot of high end parts in the RS maybe the RX will be a bit more like a big bore 1125 without all the titanium theres a few $ saved

True, they will be replacing those billet pistons with forged and they will be replacing titanium with obtainium.

[crotchrocket.tv]

4)Electronics - A serious datalogging and fully programmable electronics package can easily set you back $10k in the racing world. Take that down to consumer level, and we might be looking at $1500 worth of equipment. Savings $8500

The 1190RS does not have any data logging as it comes from EBR. It comes with the AIM MXL dash, but not the one with data logging capabilities. It does have a lap timer function which requires the purchase of the sensor and becon from AIM. The race bikes use a 2D data logger system.

[GyTe]

I hope that someone will put some pictures... :)

[Hughlysses]

According to the videos EBR posted on youtube some time back, the 1190RS engines start out as standard 1125 engines. Each of those engines has to be disassembled, then many of the parts are discarded. New or re-worked parts including heads, valves, cams, springs, cylinders, pistons, rods, and the crank are installed and the engine is reassembled. That's a big waste of labor and material. If the 1190RX/SX/AX engines are built new with all the required parts on a production line, it seems the cost of the engines will be MUCH less than the 1190RS.

[Scott]

According to the videos EBR posted on youtube some time back, the 1190RS engines start out as standard 1125 engines. Each of those engines has to be disassembled, then many of the parts are discarded. New or re-worked parts including heads, valves, cams, springs, cylinders, pistons, rods, and the crank are installed and the engine is reassembled. That's a big waste of labor and material. If the 1190RX/SX/AX engines are built new with all the required parts on a production line, it seems the cost of the engines will be MUCH less than the 1190RS.

I'm really interested to see the new engine. It's been generally reported that EBR now has the rights to make the engine. I don't know if they'll actually make them in-house or work with a subcontactor, but it seems that somebody in the US will be making an engine based on the 1190.

And while they may not use as much titanium, they've probably learned a LOT from the racing they've been doing and this third generation engine could have some significant improvements over the current 1190 even with less expensive components. The engineers have a lot of data and they know which parts break first when the thing is pushed to the limits. The weak links can be strengthened and it may be possible to trim other parts - that are stronger than they need to be - down to save some weight there.

Superficially, I would imagine the 1125, 1190RS and 1190RX engines will seem very similar, but the components are likely to have some key differences with the 1190RX version likely being one of the best V-Twin motorcycle engines ever made.

I expect Ducati will still have the edge, but it will be fun to see EBR work to close that gap.