Big press release!

[zviadi]

Unless they've got an investor with very deep pockets we haven't heard of yet, I think anything other than a very slow and steady approach could get them in trouble again. And even if they have a deep-pocket investor, I think trying to do too much, too soon could still be foolish.

Agree. Sharp movements in business can lead to bankruptcy.
Don't produced any models of motorcycles that have little compatible parts. Small manufacturers need more unification.

I would love to see a Hastur-type middle-weight

Hastur was inline-two 650 ccm.
His competitors will Ducati Scrambler or BMW F800.
Eric will have to try to make the bike with good handling and electronics, to defeat them.
I don’t need any electronics, ABS and traction onboard, but in this niche of people demand it. Without it, there will be sales.

I think most people would agree that the EBR's are among the best-handling big-bikes on the planet, but they can't compete with the inline-fours on power. So increase that power without altering the weight and handling (much) and you've got a bike from a tiny manufacturer in East Troy that could outperform the best performing bikes on the planet.

Unfortunately, it will not work.
The market dictates the conditions. Only a small number of users can ride on a powerful bike without electronics. If the manufacturer will be guided only by skilled users, it will go bankrupt.
Now is the time of marketing and one-time items.
Electronics helps solve problems with poor chassis or engine that we see everywhere. Put a lot of sensors is simply, than make a good chassis.
Good electronics worth the money and need competent developments. EBR-electronics it is not strong. I immediately disabled TC, that does not bother me.
Once again - I don’t need TC, ABS, anti-weely etc. I fight with my bike without electronic crutches and enjoy it. But people like me - in minority.
Most users want to drive a powerful 200-horsepower motorcycle as a scooter.
Buyer is spoiled.

[Scott]

Most users want to drive a powerful 200-horsepower motorcycle as a scooter.

This is it. Most people who buy Buells and EBR's understand what's important - good handling, good torque, good brakes for a responsive bike that becomes an extension of a reasonably talented rider.

But Buell and EBR riders are an extremely small group of generally experienced and educated riders. If most riders understood bikes the way we do, the EBR's would be flying off dealership floors at the prices they're currently going for.

But most motorcycle riders don't look past things like peak HP, top speed, quarter mile times, head to head moto-mag comparisons and WSBK performance. (and once they've bought a bike that has those things, they rarely take them close to their performance limits). I've lost track of how many times I've seen peple poo-poo EBR and Buell because they don't have those things.

I can almost guarantee that EBR won't be racing in WSBK within the next five years. They don't have the money, they aren't selling enough bikes (I believe a BIG part of the reason they got into the mess they did was Hero wanted to race WSBK and to do so meant they had to produce more bikes than the market was demanding to be eligible for WSBK and that left them pushing on a string - making more bikes than customers were asking for rather than taking it slow and steady and producing bikes in quantities appropriate with demand).

And since they won't be racing WSBK, that means they need to focus on the other things I mentioned - peak HP, top speed, quarter mile times and head to head moto-mag comparisons - and they could address all of those with a modified, forced induction version of the current bike.

And it won't be about selling those bikes. Those hyper-bikes will be to get people's attention. They won't need a lot of electronics, because they will be raw, untamed beasts. Advanced electronics are needed in today's world to be competitive at the top levels of WSBK, but they're not needed to make sure your HP graph is higher than your competitors when Cycle World puts them on the dyno and publishes the chart. I'm not a fan of electronics, but they'll need them if they want to compete in this market, so they better be developing them whether they make a hyper-bike or not (and obviously ABS is required for a world market).

Very few riders buy Panigale R's or R1M's or H2R's and despite what ignorant people may think, nobody is buying the bikes they're watching in WSBK.

But those bikes create images that sell the more pedestrian bikes.

EBR's task isn't to impress people like us. We already know about them and we're already impressed. But if they want to grow, they have to impress and get known by a much larger, much less educated audience.

If EBR can produce a hyper version of the 1190 RX, I believe that will get them a lot of press, a lot of buzz and a lot of people who have never heard of them viewing them as a serious sport-bike manufacturer. I believe that's what they need to sell their "real" bikes.

[ljm]

Since we are all taking wild guesses based on NO information, here's mine:
1. More adventure-like 1190 with luggage, wind screen, different suspension, different seat, and detuned engine, off-road tires.
2. Smaller displacement, lowered, naked bike using the same frame, bottom end, and most components. Corresponding weight savings from less output will make it more easily manageable.
3. In 17 1/2, ABS available on all models.
4. And way out on the limb: A middle weight, but no idea as to what it will use for a powerplant. If the 620 Hastur motor rights were retained, then a tweaked version of that. If not, then a Rotax 650 licensed to them.

There. If this pans out, I am investing in penny stocks.

[Scott]

4. And way out on the limb: A middle weight, but no idea as to what it will use for a powerplant. If the 620 Hastur motor rights were retained, then a tweaked version of that. If not, then a Rotax 650 licensed to them.

There. If this pans out, I am investing in penny stocks.

One of the more interesting things to come out of the court proceedings was this little bit of information:

"and some of the largest amounts owed to creditors included $733,000 to Mito Tech Co., a Japanese engine design firm, and $390,000 to Porsche Engineering Group."

http://archive.jsonline.com/business...365207811.html

Was that the Hastur engine or a specific EBR design? If it was the Hastur, being developed for Hero, why would it be on EBR's books instead of Hero's? And if it was beign developed for EBR, where do things stand now with that debt hanging out there? On one hand, Mito probably wasn't happy with the big hit they almost certainly took, but now that the work has been done, if EBR is willing to pay something to get something, it would make sense for Mito to work with them and salvage whatever they can out of the work performed.

Unfortunately, even if they now own a great design for a great middle-weight bike, that's only the first step. It takes a lot of money and effort to design and test the prototypes, have all the tooling created for manufacturing, test the parts and assembled components, obtain EPA and DOT certifications etc. etc. etc.

So I just can't imagine them making a completely new design any time soon. They either need to get some solid cash-flow from the sales of their 1190 bikes, or they need a big investor willing to put up a lot of cash (probably something in the ballpark of $50 million minimum). And even if they could start cranking out a lower-price higher volume middle-weight next week, they only have 16 dealers. They can't hope to sell the number of bikes they'd need to justify all that investment with the dealer network they currently have.

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but for those reasons, I highly doubt a true, unique middle-weight is coming any time soon.

I think we're much more likely to get a less expensive, shorter stroke 900 cc variation of the current bikes - but even something like that could be very cool if done right and help get them to where they need to be to start making new designs.

[Scott]

I notice they have a white 1190RX now. Was that new for 2017, or did they offer that in 2016? I don't think I've seen any white RX's. Does anyone have one or are there any pictures out there? I think white should look pretty sharp.

[Hughlysses]

I notice they have a white 1190RX now. Was that new for 2017, or did they offer that in 2016? I don't think I've seen any white RX's. Does anyone have one or are there any pictures out there? I think white should look pretty sharp.

I think that is a new color. Note that both the RX and SX are each available in 5 different colors now, and some color choices raise the price of the bike significantly.

A couple of people who did the tour at the factory open house back in March noted that the "build sheets" attached to each bike going down the assembly line listed color choices for the wheels (red was one IIRC); that may be a cool option in the near future. I really like the gunmetal gray with red wheels that they've shown on a couple of bikes.

[Hughlysses]

Unfortunately, even if they now own a great design for a great middle-weight bike, that's only the first step. It takes a lot of money and effort to design and test the prototypes, have all the tooling created for manufacturing, test the parts and assembled components, obtain EPA and DOT certifications etc. etc. etc.

So I just can't imagine them making a completely new design any time soon. They either need to get some solid cash-flow from the sales of their 1190 bikes, or they need a big investor willing to put up a lot of cash (probably something in the ballpark of $50 million minimum). And even if they could start cranking out a lower-price higher volume middle-weight next week, they only have 16 dealers. They can't hope to sell the number of bikes they'd need to justify all that investment with the dealer network they currently have.

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but for those reasons, I highly doubt a true, unique middle-weight is coming any time soon.

I think we're much more likely to get a less expensive, shorter stroke 900 cc variation of the current bikes - but even something like that could be very cool if done right and help get them to where they need to be to start making new designs.

Erik dropped some hints as to what might be coming in an interview in the July 2015 issue of Cycle World a few months after EBR entered receivership:

We've been working on the mainstream stuff. I can't talk about what was coming, but I will say some of it is much different than anybody would have expected. Stuff that is 18 months away from full-volume production that people would go "Holy s--t! EBR did that?!" It was all much higher volume and lower price.

That could mean a lot of things, but it does seem to imply they were at least into the prototype stage when things were shut down. I can imagine 2 possibilities for the engine- either a variation on the ET-V2 or an off-the-shelf Rotax engine. Hell, for all we know Erik spent his ~year long "vacation" hammering the hell out of a prototype on the backroads of Wisconsin! That wouldn't help with EPA or DOT, but it might let them check "reliability testing" off the list.

[Scott]

I think that is a new color. Note that both the RX and SX are each available in 5 different colors now, and some color choices raise the price of the bike significantly.

A couple of people who did the tour at the factory open house back in March noted that the "build sheets" attached to each bike going down the assembly line listed color choices for the wheels (red was one IIRC); that may be a cool option in the near future. I really like the gunmetal gray with red wheels that they've shown on a couple of bikes.

I'd love a White RX with blue wheels. That's a color scheme with some historical significance:







But, yeah, I also like the gray with red wheels.

[Scott]

Erik dropped some hints as to what might be coming in an interview in the July 2015 issue of Cycle World a few months after EBR entered receivership:



That could mean a lot of things, but it does seem to imply they were at least into the prototype stage when things were shut down. I can imagine 2 possibilities for the engine- either a variation on the ET-V2 or an off-the-shelf Rotax engine. Hell, for all we know Erik spent his ~year long "vacation" hammering the hell out of a prototype on the backroads of Wisconsin! That wouldn't help with EPA or DOT, but it might let them check "reliability testing" off the list.

Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt they have something cool and I'm hoping we'll get a glimpse of it with the "prototypes" they promised. But I expect they'll try to use the prototype to build interest (and maybe attract investors) as they get their s*** together.

Erik's comments on a video interview a while back indicated they really don't have the money for new things right now. Maybe somebody behind the scenes has come in with a lot of money, but if that happened, I think they'd be telling everybody - not keeping it a secret.

I suspect Liquid Assets is willing and able to supply enough money to keep them in business for the foreseeable future, but they probably won't risk much beyond that. And as long as they can stay in business for the foreseeable future, the money coming in will eventually be able to fund new projects.

I'm reasonably confident EBR is in pretty good shape right now and the future is bright, but I think we'll have to be patient for a while longer.

[Scott]

The Long Beach motorcycle show is November 20th, so hopefully we'll see some cool things then.