AMA Pro Road Racing 2014 (maybe)

So far the 2014 season(what there may be of it) is looking like a disaster and DMG I think we can safely say we are looking at the middle of the end of the end.http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...g-to-mid-ohio/ . Only 4 rounds confirmed for 2014 and its already the end of November. It doesn't look like any major organization will be racing at Laguna/Mazda and there still is not title sponsor for the superbike class. Fox Sports dropped them in 2012 and CBS Sport picked it up for 2013 and 2014. The race coverage was good and I think CBSS's approach to the race coverage was gaining traction, but what good is a TV deal when you have no races. Maybe we can get them to cover the 12 CMRA rounds instead... It's hard for me to believe that the venues are so profitable that they can afford to pass on the AMA. Its not like MOTO GP or WSBK where there are a ton a crazy facilities rules that make it uber expensive to host a race. And what's the deal with Laguna? Do they WANT to be a regional club track or have the tree huggers finally gotten their way and are forcing it to close down? AMA Pro is looking at a short bumpy ride for 2014.

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Originally Posted by Classax

So far the 2014 season(what there may be of it) is looking like a disaster and DMG I think we can safely say we are looking at the middle of the end of the end.http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...g-to-mid-ohio/ . Only 4 rounds confirmed for 2014 and its already the end of November. It doesn't look like any major organization will be racing at Laguna/Mazda and there still is not title sponsor for the superbike class. Fox Sports dropped them in 2012 and CBS Sport picked it up for 2013 and 2014. The race coverage was good and I think CBSS's approach to the race coverage was gaining traction, but what good is a TV deal when you have no races. Maybe we can get them to cover the 12 CMRA rounds instead... It's hard for me to believe that the venues are so profitable that they can afford to pass on the AMA. Its not like MOTO GP or WSBK where there are a ton a crazy facilities rules that make it uber expensive to host a race. And what's the deal with Laguna? Do they WANT to be a regional club track or have the tree huggers finally gotten their way and are forcing it to close down? AMA Pro is looking at a short bumpy ride for 2014.

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It's frustrating because they have been moving in the right direction and the TV coverage was good (though the lack of coverage in the final round was unforgivable). I think they'll be adding more races and have at least 8 or 9 by the start of the season - but they should have a solid 12-15.

It is a big catch 22. Nobody wants to invest until they're successful. They won't be successful unless people invest. They need someone with deep pockets who can afford to lose money for the next few years to come in with some real promotion and some big prize money.

But that's not likely to happen.

A couple suggestions I've seen posted elsewhere that might make some sense include: 1. Multiple races in the same year - April and September events in NJ, for example. and 2. A merger with Canadian Superbike.

Wow, only 4 conformed rounds, no wonder the title sponsor has pulled out. DOG it's official American road racing is beyond repair.

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Originally Posted by Classax

Wow, only 4 conformed rounds, no wonder the title sponsor has pulled out. DOG it's official American road racing is beyond repair.

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I'm probably naive/ignorant, but how difficult is it to book venues? That's clearly what they need. Why are previous venues not allowing them to re-book? And I'm seeing new racetracks popping up - such as the COTA. Why can't they hold events there, or at some smaller tracks that maybe haven't participated recently? There have to be 30 or more tracks that could potentially hold an AMA event.

And while motorcycle racing in general may not be big in the US what other racing events are? Wouldn't the tracks like to have a relatively high-profile event like AMA rather than/in addition to WERA etc.? And if there are conflicts at tracks like Miller and Laguna Seca with the other races, can't they just do a different weekend?

I can recognize there are likely complexities that I can't understand, but at this moment the task seems clear - add events. I just can't imagine that if they put that as their primary goal, they wouldn't be able to find enough venues accross this big country (and Canada? Mexico?) to hold 10 - 14 events.

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Originally Posted by Scott

I'm probably naive/ignorant, but how difficult is it to book venues?

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In professional racing, venues book the sanction, not the other way around. A venue would have to determine it worth paying the sanctioning fee to host an event. AMA draws like a bad crayon, so why would anyone cough up money?

Fair enough. So lets consider two tracks that (apparently) won't be hosting AMA in 2014 - Road Atlanta and NOLA. What higher profile events will they be hosting instead? I obviously don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine that the small crowds AMA would bring in wouldnt be larger than any club-racing or vintage days they might host otherwise. And if AMA can't find away to offer a package that makes it interesting enough for the track, that would seem to be totally an AMA management issue.

How can it be possible that Road Atlanta is saying: "Sorry, nobody's interested in AMA racing. We're going to host an event in which drivers will be binging their classic MG's to race instead."

I have to believe that, while interest may not be high, AMA could find a way to make the deals they need to make and have the races they need on the schedule if they tried.

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Originally Posted by Scott

Fair enough. So lets consider two tracks that (apparently) won't be hosting AMA in 2014 - Road Atlanta and NOLA. What higher profile events will they be hosting instead?

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Wrong question. Profile is not important unless you are an professional-events-only track like COTA, which neither of the above mentioned tracks are.

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I obviously don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine that the small crowds AMA would bring in wouldnt be larger than any club-racing or vintage days they might host otherwise. [...] How can it be possible that Road Atlanta is saying: "Sorry, nobody's interested in AMA racing. We're going to host an event in which drivers will be binging their classic MG's to race instead."

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Because the guys racing MGs are doing it just to put smiles on their faces and will pay their own way. So, a track like NOLA looks at the AMA, with the fees they have to pay to get the AMA to come there hoping to sell tickets to make a profit, versus the guarantee of a nice club event paying a rental, and covering their ancillary costs. If I owned that place, it would be an easy decision.

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Originally Posted by Doosh

Wrong question. Profile is not important unless you are an professional-events-only track like COTA, which neither of the above mentioned tracks are.



Because the guys racing MGs are doing it just to put smiles on their faces and will pay their own way. So, a track like NOLA looks at the AMA, with the fees they have to pay to get the AMA to come there hoping to sell tickets to make a profit, versus the guarantee of a nice club event paying a rental, and covering their ancillary costs. If I owned that place, it would be an easy decision.

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Road Atlanta currently has 4 events listed: https://www.roadatlanta.com/events/2014-schedule

Are they really making money the other 48 weekends a month? I'm betting that the track will be pad-locked for many of those weekends. So you seem to be saying that RA will lose money if there is an AMA event - okay, I'll go with that since it seems the logical assumption.

But with that in mind, I can't see how AMA Pro can't find a way to get it done. AMA pro NEEDS events to survive. If that means cutting the fee they charge to tracks and/or investing to bring more people to the tracks, that's what they need to do. It seems to me that AMA pro should do absolutley whatever it takes to ensure there are at least 10 races on the schedule or quit. I can't see a middle ground. Without more races, a bad situation is only going to get worse.

From what you're saying (and logic would support it), AMA Pro is asking more from tracks than they're willing to pay. It's not like the tracks don't exist, there are plenty of them out there. And it's not that nobody is interested - while interest may be light, I have to imagine there are as many or more people in the Atlanta area interested in seeing the nation's top motorcycle riders in a nationally televised race series that is covered in numerous magazines and online sites than there are people interested in seeing "The Mitty" for example.

So I believe they have a product that may not be in high demand, but is reasonable salable and they've got tracks that I believe would host events if offered the proper financial package so why can't they just do what it takes to get it done?

I get what you are saying, but the economics just don't work. A place like Road Atlanta costs quite a bit just to open up the place and staff it for a professional level race. Just breaking even for a track expected to cover the costs won't be that easy considering spectator draw at AMA races is pretty lean.

From a track owner's viewpoint, it's entirely possible "the right financial package" is the AMA paying THEM to have an event. I don't know the particulars of professional racing's economics, but I know there's no way a track can make money paying the AMA to bring the event to them as is typical in professional racing. The spectator numbers just aren't there.

What do you think a ticket to an AMA event at Road Atlanta should cost? We can strawman the numbers from there. You are gonna be surprised...

Well all I know is they keep issuing new rules but no schedule. I think CBSS coverage was heading in the right direction to increasing the profile of American motorcycle racing. EBR success in WSBK will as well. DMG pursue building a fan base outside the normal participant circles if they want big gates. You have to find a way to make it cheaper to do more rounds at more tracks not less. The racing in superbike has not been all that compelling but the coverage made it seem so. Get your athletes into mainstream media situations.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...till-possible/

Is it even worth doing a five race season?

I guess if they can say "We're going to focus on these rounds and really do them right so we can build from there." But somehow I don't see that happening.

I saw that Canadian Superbike had a very sort schedule as well. Why not look at merging the two?

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Originally Posted by Scott

Why not look at merging the two?

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How does this make sense for the sanctions?

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Originally Posted by Doosh

How does this make sense for the sanctions?

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I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean how would the rules be combined? I would think they could come to a mutual agreement on a rules package, and I would lean towards being as similar as reasonable to WSBK rules.

As far as advantages, I would think it would help nearly everyone involved and help with the biggest problems both series have - not enough rounds, not enough riders, not enough sponsors and not enough fans.

I have heard people argue that the Canadian tracks aren't safe enough, but when AMA racing is facing an existential threat, I think they need to do whatever they need to do. Any riders who don't want to race those tracks can go to another series. It's all North America, so teams can drive to all events.

I'm sure there would be challenges, but considering the state both series are in, something has to happen or both may be gone soon.

Not only is it just 5 rounds, but for the most part they are 90 days apart. I don't see it making fiscal sense to try and hold a full or even partime team together for testing and development when the races are that far apart. To be quite honest with only 5 east of the Mississippi rounds, this looks more like a regional club racing org than a national series. It makes more fiscal sense to run WERA or CMRA for both the tracks and the teams if you're going to settle for running regional club racing. Unless they are really going to bite the bullet and market the heck out of the five rounds they have to win back fans, you can't say this is a rebuild, because where are the teams? No EBR, no Jumpman, only 1 KTM rider, Eslick going to Daytona sportbike, Hayden still has no ride, no title sponsorship, man this playing out like an old Meryl Haggard song.

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Originally Posted by Classax

Not only is it just 5 rounds, but for the most part they are 90 days apart. I don't see it making fiscal sense to try and hold a full or even partime team together for testing and development when the races are that far apart. To be quite honest with only 5 east of the Mississippi rounds, this looks more like a regional club racing org than a national series. It makes more fiscal sense to run WERA or CMRA for both the tracks and the teams if you're going to settle for running regional club racing. Unless they are really going to bite the bullet and market the heck out of the five rounds they have to win back fans, you can't say this is a rebuild, because where are the teams? No EBR, no Jumpman, only 1 KTM rider, Eslick going to Daytona sportbike, Hayden still has no ride, no title sponsorship, man this playing out like an old Meryl Haggard song.

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I agree. A five round series just isn't worth doing, but if they have no choice, I would suggest cramming them as close together as possible - for example 1 race every other weekend for a 10 week season. Not only is the spread difficult for the teams, but casual fans are going to lose interest with 90 days between.

After you see a race, you're into it. You want to see what will happen next round. But that feeling fades over time and by 90 days later you've forgotten who won the last one and what the battles were and you have to start all over to rebuild enthusiasm.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...cing-official/ Not to put too fine a point on the whole debacle but 2013 was economically speaking a better year than either 2012 or 2011. Less than half the events and races. Really?!? Meanwhile HD pumps more money into XR1200 to race bikes you can't buy anymore(though they are all American( assembled)). How do you lose both title Sponsors mid contract? By only being able to provide half the advertising spots(races) that's how. How do you lose half the venues in the course of the year? By being so arrogant as to over charge both the fans and promoters to attend/host your events while simultaneously being so obtuse as to not plan more one than one season at a time until it was too late. That's how. Its not the Market, or the product, or the consumers, its the salesmen who are torpedoed this ship.

Larry Pegram will run the EBR 1190 this year.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...-championship/

Yep I posted a separate thread as well. I just got highly motivated to watch all 5 rounds, and even Super Bike Family. That makes 1 KTM, 2 Yamahas, 1 or 2 EBRs and... ahh hmm...in superbike. A grid 5 for the 5 round series.

Not to throw cold water on an already wet blanket of a season for AMA pro Super bike, but looking at the event schedules,http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/ the only two race weekend is Elkhart Lake, the rest are all Sunday only races. Are we really talking about a 6 race season! I was willing to accept 5 rounds if they were two race weekends (10 total) but there is no way you are going to secure TV coverage for just 6 races! I'd be shocked if they do. And if they do the marketing and production value better be out of this world or this series is done. I think they're trying to kill it. Sundays are usually more the local crowds. Saturdays were the die hards who travel in mixed with the curious. For me, since I'm doing bike week anyway Daytona is a go but, no way I'd pay to fly into Barber and certainly not drive it from Texas for just one day of racing. WOW... I sure hope I turn out to be wrong...

Looks like Roger Hayden will be the thrid man on the factory GSXR's this season. That makes the feild 2 R1's, 3 GSXR's, 2 EBR's 1 KTM 1 Honda and 1 Panigale so far. Wow that almost looks like a projected finishing order in the "Championship".

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Originally Posted by Classax

Looks like Roger Hayden will be the thrid man on the factory GSXR's this season. That makes the feild 2 R1's, 3 GSXR's, 2 EBR's 1 KTM 1 Honda and 1 Panigale so far. Wow that almost looks like a projected finishing order in the "Championship".

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The actual racing side of it is shaping up to be fairly interesting, but it's hard to get into such a short season. Any word on TV coverage?

http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/event...eid=2014011405 Well its officially official. Foremost/Pegram Racing has entered the EBR 1190RS in all 6 races of the 2014 season. So far with just over two weeks to the dead line to enter Daytona, only 5 riders have signed up for Superbike and 12 in Daytona Sportbike. As opposed to last year at this time when the grid was full with 21 entered in Superbike. Deafening silence still emanates from the TV coverage conversation.

Unless there is a slew of teams who are going to pay the late entry fee, there will only be a bakers dozen of machines on the superbike grid at Daytona next month. Meanwhile the Sportbike grid will see some hard racing and desparate attempts to qualify with 32 machines entered to do battle. Still no word on TV coverage.

Well per the entry list this morning http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/event...&class_sort=SB there are only 15 superbikes enterd to race at Daytona this year. Simply abismal. I wonder if DMG will repeal its no late entry policies now, that the preimer class can even fill the grid. I was hoping to see Cory West out there on the EBR but maybe he will join in later rounds. I'm torn on the one hand I feell like not making the the trip because DMG has ruined the series but on the other hand if I don't, me and my family won't ring the turnstlyes which will further injure the sport.

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Originally Posted by Classax

Well per the entry list this morning http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/event...&class_sort=SB there are only 15 superbikes enterd to race at Daytona this year. Simply abismal. I wonder if DMG will repeal its no late entry policies now, that the preimer class can even fill the grid. I was hoping to see Cory West out there on the EBR but maybe he will join in later rounds. I'm torn on the one hand I feell like not making the the trip because DMG has ruined the series but on the other hand if I don't, me and my family won't ring the turnstlyes which will further injure the sport.

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Well there are 20 entries now, but I think they're in serious trouble. Has there been any word on TV coverage? Will the AMA webcast it if there's no actual TV coverage?

I don't know how a series like this can survive if there's no way to see the races (other than going to your local track - and I think those numbers will drop dramatically if there's no way to see the races that aren't local).

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Originally Posted by Scott

Well there are 20 entries now, but I think they're in serious trouble. Has there been any word on TV coverage? Will the AMA webcast it if there's no actual TV coverage?

I don't know how a series like this can survive if there's no way to see the races (other than going to your local track - and I think those numbers will drop dramatically if there's no way to see the races that aren't local).

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The races were available via the online DVR but the quality was :thumbsdown:VERY poor. I was just was ranting on another board about the patheticness of being able to see IROC snowmobile racing or NHRA swampbuggy racing on TV and yet not have a deal in place for the AMA when the network had already inked a deal for 2014 and 2015 but can't move forward because DMG is only holding half the the number of events everyone expected.:headbang: This is effectively quadrupling the cost of each available advertising spot while reducing their number. Since there are fewer commercial spots available at MUCH higher cost to cover the base production cost, the network and producers are having little luck selling them.

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Originally Posted by Classax

The races were available via the online DVR but the quality was :thumbsdown:VERY poor. I was just was ranting on another board about the patheticness of being able to see IROC snowmobile racing or NHRA swampbuggy racing on TV and yet not have a deal in place for the AMA when the network had already inked a deal for 2014 and 2015 but can't move forward because DMG is only holding half the the number of events everyone expected.:headbang: This is effectively quadrupling the cost of each available advertising spot while reducing their number. Since there are fewer commercial spots available at MUCH higher cost to cover the base production cost, the network and producers are having little luck selling them.

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:mad:

That just seems to emphasize how critical it was for them to put together 10 races. They should have done everything imaginable to lock down those venues. They may be in a death spiral now. No TV coverage means even fewer fans than before. Fewer fans than before means less money at the gate. Less money at the gate means fewer venues will be interested. Fewer venues interested when they could only get 5 this year means there may never be a 2015 season.

Am I overstating it?

It seems to me they need someone with deep pockets who can afford to take a loss for a few years but make sure they'll have at least ten races plus TV coverage for a minimum of 3 years to try to build some interest. I think the problem is that anyone with that kind of money didn't get that kind of money by gambling it on a venture as risky as that.

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Originally Posted by Scott

Am I overstating it?

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No, I think you're spot on Scott. The articles from Roadracing world late last year indicated that many venues were not even contacted by DMG/AMA. In fact the reason the whole issue about the sceduling conflict with the US round of WSBK was because no one from DMG/AMA was in contact with Laguna Seca's mamagment until after everything was done or at least so claim the folks at Laguna. There are 3 sides to every story though. Its not that people aren't interested in motorcycle roadracing, its that DMG keeps making it harder to back, follow, attend, watch, participate, and cover the sport.
Mean while this Pegram Foremost EBR is quite patriotic!
Attachment 170

Awesome looking bike!! At least that cheers me up some. Thanks for sharing.

Looks like John Ulrich is going to make his alternate series happen:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/raci...racing-series/

The interesting question here is: "Will the AMA try to partner with him and find a way to integrate this into their own series . . . or will they try to compete directly with him?"

I have a feeling that if the AMA doesn't play this right, Ulrich could be hosting the premier US roadracing series in a few years.

I'm not sure if I were John I'd want to partner with DMG/AMA, it looks like he has been able to do what they have not. The fact that this is happening should have DMG quaking in its boots because it shows that they are replaceable!

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Originally Posted by Classax

DMG quaking in its boots because it shows that they are replaceable!

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I think that's the key point. If DMG closes their doors (as seems more likely than it's ever been), we now have an alternative.

But I think 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' might be sound advice for DMG right now (and I don't think JU's goal is to replace DMG as much as it is to ensure there are professional races in the USA).

So if I were DMG, I'd look into integrating John's races into my series and offering points for them.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...xpH9o.facebook Well this a good first step but literally you still have NASCAR in charge which to my mind either needs to be a complete cross pollinating marriage. Anything less will operationally be a conflict of interest with NASCAR always coming away with the best.

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Originally Posted by Classax

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...xpH9o.facebook Well this a good first step but literally you still have NASCAR in charge which to my mind either needs to be a complete cross pollinating marriage. Anything less will operationally be a conflict of interest with NASCAR always coming away with the best.

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Yep. I think considering the current state of things, the fact that the headline was "AMA Pro Racing Restructures Board Of Managers" as opposed to "AMA Pro Racing Fires Board Of Managers" shows they may not recognize how much trouble they're in until it's too late.

On my way to Daytona and it sadenss me becuase I don't know whether to boycott the Daytona 200 in protest of the clear mismanagment of the series by DMG or swallow hard and support the riders knowing that the only way to see the races will be in person. So if I don't go to the 200, I may not get a chance to see any AMA at all in 2014. WHY is it we have FOX doing prerace, qualifying and practices for NASCAR and nothing for the AMA when the series is owned by the SAME group. DMG could easily have told FOX to cover the AMA side or they would walk with all their NASCAR stuff, but the fact is they don't want to. How is it that CBSS will be airing FIM SMRA and the naitonal box car champinonships but not the most "historic" race in American motorcycling? How is it that John Ulrich was able to get a TV deal in place for three races in less than 3 months and DMG hasn't been able to in almost a year? I love the sport but DMG is purposefully killing it. SMH in disgust.

At least some good news today for EBR fans. Laguna Seca was added to the 2014 AMA schedule as part of the WSBK U.S. event (July 11-13).

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Originally Posted by fabric8

Laguna Seca was added to the 2014 AMA schedule as part of the WSBK U.S. event (July 11-13).

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Not that is great news! Providing my plans don't change I should be there for it. I guess with the launch of the new online network we now know why the TV deal seems so inexplicably elusive.

http://youtu.be/rHJoj9IqeKg


DMG is out KRAVE is in...http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...racing-series/


I knew DMG couldn't last another year like this.

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Originally Posted by Classax

http://youtu.be/rHJoj9IqeKg


DMG is out KRAVE is in...http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...racing-series/


I knew DMG couldn't last another year like this.

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:cheers:

I saw some of these releases yesterday, but I'm not sure what it all means yet. Will there be sudden, dramatic change, or will it be a slow shift?


I would imagine they'd be dealing with the same tracks that DMG was dealing with and unless they're willing to offer a much better package (and I imagine money will still be somewhat limited for a product with luke-warm demand - and I don't think the basic demand will change overnight), it seems like they'll be wrestling with some of the same barriers DMG had.

Will there be a TV package? (Frankly, the WSBK TV package isn't that great and I had to pay a subscription fee just to get it . . . will they be combined in some way?) I guess one advantage could be that they could combine with WSBK and Moto-GP weekends (it seems like FIM had been throwing up roadblocks to that, will cooperation make it work much better?).

It seems like Canada is involved in some way that I don't understand. Will the two series merge? I've thought that's something they should have looked into long ago to increase tracks and riders. But one barrier has always been that DMG/AMA has requirements for tracks that prevents them racing on many of the Canadian (and US) tracks. Will they lower their standards.

I also don't understand who "KRAVE" is and their connection to all this.

It all seems very encouraging, but I still have a lot of questions. I'm not sure if I'll just have to wait to see how things progress or if some of my questions are based on my own ignorance.

Anyone else know enough to fill in and/or speculate on some of the unknowns?

It seems like this should help transfer-ability between the the series, and that should work out well for a team like EBR that (hopefully) has a long-term plan to participate in both.