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Betterbuell
02-22-2016, 07:07 AM
I know Ive run a post on pads before, but the weakest feature on my 1190 on the track is over heating brakes. Plenty of stopping power until they over heat. running sbs ds pads but the rotors are suffering big time. Pads are throwing metal everywhere. I'm coming off a 1098 with Brembos and carbon pads that performed brilliantly. Are there carbon pads available or a better rotor combo?? or do I change over to twin Brembo calipers/rotors on Ohlins forks ?

Doosh
02-22-2016, 08:56 AM
Is the lever going soft, or becoming "wood" feeling?

Vesrah makes an XX pad for these bikes. It wears fast and dusts a lot, but does run well. I've not tried the sbs pads but heard good things from them.

Post up a picture of the rotor as well, that will help me diagnose.

Also, remove the pad retaining clips from the caliper (copper springs at the back) -- they block cooling air flow.

Betterbuell
02-22-2016, 04:43 PM
Removed the springs as you suggested earlier. Loosing lever a little every 2nd lap and I have an adjuster on my Brembo RC19 master cylinder. Brakes dont fade , just loosing lever. More worn the pads get the worse it becomes. After a few sessions the feel becomes very gritty and the pads gall up and the material breaks away around the edges , indicating excessive heat. The wheel gets covered in small metal fly offs. The rotor shows discoloured spots on the surface . Using new fluid,Castrol race spec. My track is 60" around with a 150m break zone 220 down to 40kmh, 200m zone 260 down to 80kmh, then 100 zone 180kmh down to 30kmh. Tough on brakes !

Doosh
02-22-2016, 07:41 PM
I need a good close up picture of the rotor

GJB
02-22-2016, 10:21 PM
I have experienced the exact same scenario to the point the brake pads disintegrate and the heat is so severe the fluid boils and lever goes completely soft. I will be trying again this weekend with fresh pads

Betterbuell
02-23-2016, 02:45 AM
818819820The pads are SBS 856ds

Betterbuell
02-23-2016, 02:46 AM
Does any one know if the wave rotors are the same fit that you can buy for the XB Buell ?

TerryS1980
02-23-2016, 06:24 AM
Yep same. http://www.5-0dro.com/index.php/1125-models/twin-motorcycles-xb-1125-front-rotor-detail

Doosh
02-23-2016, 09:17 AM
Brakes dont fade , just loosing lever.

By this, I assume the lever gets soft and comes all the way to the bar?

If so, that's the fluid boiling over. If you aren't already, try a fresh bottle of Motul RBF 600 and be sure to completely flush the brake system.


Tough on brakes !

Sadly, the ZTL system is just tough on the heat. The next step is trying a different pad like the Vesrah XX. After that step, the consider going to a milled-out race caliper. Basically, you take a caliper and remove all the material from each side down to just one seal. Let's a lot more air get in there.

Did these pads come with a perforated stainless backing? If so, why did you remove it?

Doosh
02-23-2016, 09:18 AM
Yep same. http://www.5-0dro.com/index.php/1125-models/twin-motorcycles-xb-1125-front-rotor-detail


IMHO, this has a decent chance of making the problem worse. This rotor simply has less material on it, and overheats more easily.

Betterbuell
02-23-2016, 03:10 PM
By this, I assume the lever gets soft and comes all the way to the bar?

If so, that's the fluid boiling over. If you aren't already, try a fresh bottle of Motul RBF 600 and be sure to completely flush the brake system.
Could try another fluid.


Sadly, the ZTL system is just tough on the heat. The next step is trying a different pad like the Vesrah XX. After that step, the consider going to a milled-out race caliper. Basically, you take a caliper and remove all the material from each side down to just one seal. Let's a lot more air get in there.

Did these pads come with a perforated stainless backing? If so, why did you remove it?
These were a spare set, I have ordered a set of Vesrah

Betterbuell
02-23-2016, 03:11 PM
IMHO, this has a decent chance of making the problem worse. This rotor simply has less material on it, and overheats more easily.
I was looking in this direction and wondered if less material would be detrimental ........ Any other track and the single rotor would be ok

Doosh
02-23-2016, 03:41 PM
Any other track and the single rotor would be ok

I'm sympathetic to your situation... this is the layout of my home track. All long straights leading into 2nd gear corners. Hell on brakes.

http://www.terrysaytherauto.com/images/titles/ECRTrack.gif

Betterbuell
02-23-2016, 09:17 PM
15 corners ! I'd need a gps . Bet the EBR excels through 3-6 and 8-13 ? See if i can paste my track up.

Betterbuell
02-23-2016, 09:21 PM
Nah, google Symmons Plains Raceway

Slickit
02-24-2016, 04:57 AM
http://www.eatsleeptinker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MSRH-Full_Course_Map.jpg

Doosh
02-24-2016, 10:30 AM
http://www.eatsleeptinker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MSRH-Full_Course_Map.jpg

I know this circuit well, and it's not nearly as bad on brakes as Eagles Canyon. Not even close.

(I like the track a lot, though!)

Doosh
02-24-2016, 10:31 AM
15 corners ! I'd need a gps . Bet the EBR excels through 3-6 and 8-13 ? See if i can paste my track up.

In this map, 3/4, 7/8, 11/12 and 14/15 are really only one corner each. It's a double apex.

Going into 1 and 7 are downhill after long straights -- really eats up the brakes. Going into 11 is a VERY steep downhill, but you aren't carrying as much speed.

snacktoast
02-24-2016, 08:06 PM
Guys, the best combination that any of the racers used was the stock rotor RX rotor with SBS DS compound pads.
They will be able to handle the heat abuse for all but WSBK level riders. Lots of bite and excellent feel.

Betterbuell
02-24-2016, 08:31 PM
Guys, the best combination that any of the racers used was the stock rotor RX rotor with SBS DS compound pads.
They will be able to handle the heat abuse for all but WSBK level riders. Lots of bite and excellent feel.That's what i'm running and having problems with !
My next move is Vesrah pads the new Brembo 600 fluid (dry boiling 319 degree c ) with stock rotor .

Wouldnt a carbon disc be awsome for the 1190 ? I would have thought some company offer carbon pads .

Doosh
02-24-2016, 09:38 PM
Wouldnt a carbon disc be awsome for the 1190 ? I would have thought some company offer carbon pads .

At one time, someone was making a composite brake kit for the 1125r -- pads and rotor. It was crazy expensive.

Fusion
03-08-2016, 02:42 AM
Hi All
I am using the same pads and they become less effective after 1/3rd wear. Which is when I replace mine.
This is also the case with "Carbon Metalic" that I use in my Ducati
I don't have the problem with heat but I would like a stronger Brake. I am using a Brembo 19mm Master.

Betterbuell
03-08-2016, 05:41 AM
Hi All
I am using the same pads and they become less effective after 1/3rd wear. Which is when I replace mine.
This is also the case with "Carbon Metalic" that I use in my Ducati
I don't have the problem with heat but I would like a stronger Brake. I am using a Brembo 19mm Master.
Which pads Fusion ? I'm thinking cheaper pads and changing them out each track meet. The SBS DS pads have heaps of metal in them (actually the fling offs are burnt into the powder coat on the front rim !) They aren't cheap, and scour the rotor to boot .

zviadi
03-09-2016, 03:23 AM
I use front Braking 939CM55 and rear Braking 938CM56. I use always both brakes. Using only the front brake is enough for a good slow this bike.
On the track I don't go, but I think that these pads cope and are inexpensive. Front pad suffices me about 3000-3500 km.
But they are three times cheaper than the SBS DS)))

http://www.braking.com/catalogue/intro.php?lang=EN

In this forum was a link to a set of racing carbon pads and carbon front rotor for 2100$ from 1125.
In my opinion it is sold here: https://www.twinmotorcycles.nl
It makes sense to try, if you live on the track.

Fusion
03-11-2016, 11:05 PM
Im using SBS DS

zviadi
03-12-2016, 12:50 AM
Track only?

Fusion
03-12-2016, 01:38 AM
Yes831

zviadi
03-12-2016, 01:44 AM
You don't ride on legal roads on this bike?

Fusion
03-12-2016, 03:41 AM
No it is just a race bike. We do have road race circuits here in New Zealand though.832