PDA

View Full Version : Replacement battery



d_adams
01-02-2016, 09:09 PM
So I have one dead battery so far and am looking for a replacement. I've found several options based on size and CCA.

Stock was 315 CCA,
battery dimensions for the 1190 rx
150 mm long
80 mm wide
120 mm tall

Anyone else tried an alternative to the Shorai battery?

These first two are a little smaller, higher CCA though.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/sstx12b-fp.html
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstz14s-fp.html


This one is roughly the same size and considerably higher CCA.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstx20ch-fp.html

yamatr3
01-03-2016, 12:23 AM
My bike had a Battery Tender brand lithium battery in it when I got it. I assumed it was standard, but maybe it wasn't. I'll have to take the seat off and look what the part number is.

Mike
01-03-2016, 03:19 AM
My Shorai's been fine so far.

But as I've mentioned in the past, I put the Shorai charger on it after long weekends or every two weekends to equalize the cells that make up the battery. So far, just over 8000 miles with no battery problems..!
While I didn't get any "monetary" deal on my bike, I did get a few "free" parts, the charger was one of them.

Per the Shorai guys, they said it's good to use a "proper" charger to "equalize" the cells at least every couple of months. While a Battery Tender will charge the battery, as the engine mag./alternator/generator will, it will not keep the separate cells equalized.

On the Shorai battery's, the little "port" (rubber cover) on the battery, that's the charging port for charging the separate cells. Any charger that just clips onto the two terminals, will not charge the cells separately.

Mike

GJB
01-03-2016, 08:13 PM
I like the fact that the scorpion battery does not drop voltage as drastic as shorai. I may get one for my 1050 Tiger

Oliver van Blerk
01-09-2016, 12:26 AM
I put a Motobat lithium charger on the Shorai battery and it killed it! I replaced it with a Motobat lead acid gel battery which is much heavier.

Plotter
01-09-2016, 10:16 PM
My buddy got an AGM with only about 120cca... here in texas it doesn't get that cold... The room for batteries in this things is ridiculous... very small... tight fit...

bthibodeaux
01-09-2016, 10:51 PM
So I have one dead battery so far and am looking for a replacement. I've found several options based on size and CCA.

Stock was 315 CCA,
battery dimensions for the 1190 rx
150 mm long
80 mm wide
120 mm tall

Anyone else tried an alternative to the Shorai battery?


This one is roughly the same size and considerably higher CCA.
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstx20ch-fp.html

Thanks for the info Dean. ^This one is the one I will go for if mine dies. I do have Shorias in a couple of my bikes with no issues to date though. BTW I will be calling you this week to discuss (and purchase) the IDS programmable ECU with your tune for a one off TI silencer. Talk to you soon.

Brian

d_adams
01-10-2016, 05:00 AM
Found out Shorai has a 3 year warranty. 1st year, free replacement, 2nd & 3rd years are pro-rated. I'll be sending my dead one back in.

Mike
01-10-2016, 12:10 PM
The Shorai guys are pretty nice.
I had a bunch of questions for them about the care and feeding of their batteries early on. They answered all my questions, made other suggestions, (the, every now and again charging to stabilize/equalize the cells).

Mike

heagachongoose
01-11-2016, 05:51 PM
I replaced it with a Motobat lead acid gel battery which is much heavier.

Info? I'm looking for something non Li. I do a lot of cold weather riding.

Plotter
01-11-2016, 06:03 PM
Info? I'm looking for something non Li. I do a lot of cold weather riding.

Try an Earth X battery... because of the size limitations, it might be difficult, if not impossible to get the CCA for cold weather riding in a non LI battery. The only battery that would fit was very low on CCA for AGM and lead acid. Fortunately, I ride in South Texas, which does not require the cold starting amps... The width of the battery is what kills you...

remooney
04-19-2016, 01:45 PM
I had this happen yesterday! 863864865

Any thoughts on how to prevent this?

remooney
04-19-2016, 01:48 PM
Has this happened to anyone?

buell-fan
04-19-2016, 05:03 PM
Try a Google search for Shorai Li dead shorting cells. That may turn up something.
I had a different battery do that in another bike last summer.

d_adams
04-19-2016, 05:13 PM
Wow, no. I'd call Shorai and send them pics of it.

buell-fan
04-19-2016, 05:26 PM
"Shorai battery melt" brings up a bunch of images.

zviadi
04-20-2016, 12:59 AM
Check relay-rectifier.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/melted-shorai-battery.820156/

Did you use the original charger?

Doosh
04-20-2016, 07:32 AM
Even Boeing had this problem with Li batteries. They are light, incredibly energy dense, and as a result, more volatile.

gggGary
01-05-2019, 08:25 AM
Any others find the "best fit/CCA combo" for a replacement battery?
Just brought home a brand new 21014 SX (2 miles) and the battery is completely toast.
Flunky at dealer tried to charge it before I got there with near disastrous results.

Cooter
01-06-2019, 09:38 PM
Why not the OE Shorai replacement?

gggGary
01-07-2019, 06:47 AM
Thank for the reply Cooter. Is the Shorai available? The shorai site doesn't have purchase button for THAT battery (https://shoraipower.com/lfx21a7-bs12-p291077?fbclid=IwAR1hi1yx9Eio2fHLMIwfgOaDMW_qBG2n0 CqrKUlb55NuNU2V64SupmIfZ78). No link to it in the menu either. Found one at https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/shorai-lfx-/lfx21a7-bs12.html but they want $50 more than suggested list, then is that an "old stock" battery?... Does Shorai have a built in battery management system? About every one else now does. Seems pretty important. No battery (yet) means I won't go out and try and ride it on salty, nasty roads. What could go wrong?
2094

This Scorpion (https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstx20ch-fp.html) seems like its a (snug) fit when I mocked one up out of foam.

Is there any reason to NOT have a ECU disconnect to prevent the battery from discharging in storage?

EBRRider
01-07-2019, 01:18 PM
https://shoraipower.com/battery?type=175&make=382794&model=382795&year=382795

gggGary
01-07-2019, 02:16 PM
Thnx, Yes I see that Shorai but there's no buy link or nav to it on the site, others have reported it's NLA?
Scorpion mock up.
2095

Cooter
01-08-2019, 04:25 AM
I would call Shorai for the definite answer before I bought a Chinese unit that won't post specs. They're in Nor Cal and really big EBR/ Buell fans.

gggGary
01-08-2019, 07:46 AM
Been really looking for some lithium "facts" this thread is the best info I've found so far.
https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?242120-Lithium-Iron-Battery-Primer-(LiFePO4)
If you wade in, are some pics of a Shorai that's been dissected. Really think internal cell balancing circuitry is a must have.
Sure wish there were some lithiums designed for customs that have a box that just covers the cells and isn't butchered to retrofit existing battery sizes. It's not impossible to do a roll your own from fleabay components, but that is a long engineering project on it's own.
Any opinions on downsides to a disconnect to prevent parasite draw while the bike sits?

Cooter
01-08-2019, 02:16 PM
I never had an issue with disconnecting my battery, except the PITA of removing the seat with the tail tidy mounting bracket on it. Li-ion with self discharge too though. I did find a 400amp rated smallish battery disconnect switch that I was going to mount, but never found a 'clean' place for it.

Mine would go a solid 5 days without issue but I gave up with all the disconnects I had, and just plug in the Shorai charger (that balances the cells) when I come back home. I mounted the charger pigtail to the back of the license plate for super quick connecting.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4770/25840559108_f40f993b9e_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4620/39712495861_cf51faac04_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4745/39712497191_b726a011e1_b.jpg

Kid Thunder
01-08-2019, 02:24 PM
I tried a Battery Tender battery. Worked fine for me. It was actually smaller than the Shorai but was fine with the foam panels installed.

gggGary
01-10-2019, 08:30 AM
So this link to the Aprilia forum is like the definitive thread on Lithium Batteries (https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?242120-Lithium-Iron-Battery-Primer-(LiFePO4))
After reading through it several times and near endless searching over 4 days I think I have decided on the earthX ETX24C (https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx24c). It has the elusive combo of fitting in the tiny space available, enough cranking power for the 1190 and the battery protection circuitry I feel is needed for long battery life.


ETX24C specs
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA): 420A
Cold Crank Amps (CCA): 270A
Dimensions: 5.9in (L) x 3.4in (W) x 4.5in (H)150mm(L)x86mm(W)x115mm(H)
Over discharge protection
Over charge protection
Built in cell balancing technology
Short circuit protection up to 1,000 amps
Excessive cranking protection


Since It's winter in Wisconsin I have 2 months before this beastie hits the streets, will wait a few days before pulling the $259 trigger and would appreciate any comments yeahs, nays, or flaws in the plan.

Ebro
01-10-2019, 10:47 AM
My battery seems to be holding the charge good for now, but since it's weak spot in these bikes, would getting the shorai's (https://www.motorcycleid.com/shorai/charge-store-battery-management-system-mpn-sho-bms01.html) battery charge/management system (https://www.motorcycleid.com/shorai/charge-store-battery-management-system-mpn-sho-bms01.html) be a good idea? It doesn't have a jump start feature, that I think would be useful if one day the bike would refuse to start.

gggGary
01-12-2019, 10:24 AM
I am now chewing on the EarthX ETX24C @ 259
Ah: 7.8A
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA): 420A
Cold Crank Amps (CCA): 270A
Weight: 2.6 lb


vs EarthX ETX36C @ $349 same size housing! More cells packed in?
Ah: 12.4A
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA): 680A
Cold Crank Amps (CCA): 320A
Weight: 3.9 lb
So the $90 question is will I need or use the extra capacity?

gggGary
01-16-2019, 05:39 PM
found an ETX36C open box on Amazon for $220, I bit. Should be able to fire it up next week.

Cooter
01-16-2019, 06:37 PM
At least that bigger ETX36C has similar rated CCA (320 vs 315) to the OE Shorai. The other one was only 270. Good luck, post what you find. Do you have an inductive meter or other capability to check amp draw that high? I would love to see testing:)

gggGary
01-28-2019, 07:14 AM
Put a clamp meter on it while starting, the readings happen pretty fast so the display was having a hard time keeping up but saw (over) 300 amps momentarily??? battery is tight fit for width, length and height are fine. I think it will be fine with a little manipulation of the harness and how I connect the positive wire to the battery. Battery comes with terminal extenders so positive wire can go more "over the top" to clear the harness bundle. Why is the ground strap so long, going all the way around the battery??? Can anyone tell me why the early one piece tail cracks? is it from trying to remove it without taking off the seat latch etc? Fricking snow and bitter cold, it's going to be a LOOONG winter.

Hayabrusa
03-02-2019, 09:02 PM
Hey man - I picked up a 2014 SX last October. Get this - it had 34 miles on it when I purchased it (from an H-D dealer in Florida), but 84 when it got to me! I was none too happy. Anyway, I appreciate your digging on the battery thing, as I need a new replacement for my Shorai as well. I'm having a bit of sticker shock with the buy in price, although if I could find an open box like you did, I might bite also. I was also thinking about a gel-type as a substitute - did you ever look into that? Lastly, I fully concur with this damn winter thing - I am in NW Minnesota! This has been the worst early winter combination of snow and low temps in about the last 15 years I'd say. Can't wait to get the SX broken in! Not sure how much searching for 'stuff' you have done otherwise, but there's a great place in Sweden (of all places!) called NCCR.se - I bought a tinted windscreen for mine from them. They are a pretty interesting outfit.

gggGary
03-02-2019, 10:49 PM
The earthX battery comes with a couple of brass cable "movers", let me run the positive cable a bit higher so the battery fit great even with a "battery cozy" I made out of rubber drawer liner.
:cheers:
Gave up, road trip south next week (in the van). I stuck with looking for Li-on but don't think it needs to be as strong as this one. I'll check NCCR.se out, thnx!

Cooter
03-03-2019, 02:55 PM
HayaBrusa, welcome to the SX clan!

I would NOT try to put in a AGM battery. They max out about 220CCA. The Shorai is about 340CCA!. Theres other Li-ion options if you look, but don't be suckered by fake stats on chinese units.

mnscrounger
03-07-2019, 09:21 PM
HayaBrusa, welcome to the SX clan!

I would NOT try to put in a AGM battery. They max out about 220CCA. The Shorai is about 340CCA!. Theres other Li-ion options if you look, but don't be suckered by fake stats on chinese units.AGM


I won't argue with Cooter's numbers, but I will admit the # on the AGM battery I bought for the SX Beta is a Batteries Plus XTAZ14S. I recall it was about 115.00 ( a quick internet search suggests they can be had a LOT cheaper)I bought it just to power up the bike for mileage data to submit to the DMV fro titling, but I tried cranking it and it fired up just fine.
It fit, but was a bit too wide, so the seat pan doesn't quite meet the tail by about 1/16th at the back. when I sit on it the pan deforms enough to close that. I'm sure that's not good for the battery, and I don't pretend it would be as good as the Shorai either ,but it seems to be working OK for now, and is easy to find.

Soarer
03-22-2019, 02:46 PM
Did the Shorai LFX21A7-BS12 get discontinued? I can't find it for sale anywhere. Shorai site says it's $159.95 and a charger is another $90 or so. That seems like the way to go in my mind for value. I'd rather replace a $159 battery every 3 or so years and use the charger to manage balancing cells.

Soarer
04-15-2019, 12:27 PM
I just got an email from Shorai saying that they no longer manufacture that battery. They suggested a YTZ10S as a replacement. Only 190 CCA though.... And it's a different size. From what I can tell, in all their glorious wisdom, EBR decided to use a completely custom sized battery for our bikes and no one currently makes a battery in the same size.

Has anyone tried disassembling their Shorai battery and replacing the individual cells? Maybe adding a balancing circuit as well?

Soarer
04-16-2019, 11:30 AM
It looks like I'm the only one that cares about this thread but just in case anyone comes along in the future with the same problem....... As of 4/16/2019 EBR is still selling parts and has OEM Shorai batteries in stock. You can purchase from their web store.

Soarer
04-24-2019, 02:37 PM
I just bought a AutoCraft TX12 battery from Advance Auto Parts and it fit! It's very snug and I had to make a small extension for the + battery terminal and remove the rear ECM bolt, but it's in working great. It only has 180 CCA but I really don't run the thing unless it's over 50 degrees so I think I'll be fine. The battery came to $71.51 after a 25% discount code (which you can just about always get for Advance) plus a $5 core charge and $4 in tax. Not bad!!

Cooter
04-24-2019, 03:57 PM
How well does it crank with half the CCA of the OE battery? I heard if the EBR's crank slow they can backfire and skip the timing chain :twitch:.

d_adams
09-09-2019, 09:54 AM
Since it's been confirmed to fit, I'll add this one to the list of potential replacements.

https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx36c

Rb70383
11-20-2019, 06:00 AM
Maybe split the Shorai case open since it fits, and see how much spare room there is. Might not be a lot since the BMS is not on the battery. Maybe be able to add an externally mounted BMS, that is next to the battery?

Just ordered the battery Dean linked too. I'll try to remember pics when it comes in. I'll probably throw a charge at it to make sure its ready for spring. Little spendy, but after an ordeal with my XB, I'm leaning towards peace of mind.

Kid Thunder
11-21-2019, 12:07 AM
Antigravity 12cell small case. 360 ca Fits with padding.

Rb70383
12-08-2019, 06:08 AM
Pics.
2151
21492150

Cooter
12-08-2019, 01:42 PM
Whats your verdict RB? Do you like it?

Rb70383
12-09-2019, 06:38 AM
I cant say. Only a fitment test as she is winterized. :cry:

heagachongoose
05-27-2020, 07:50 PM
Looking at getting one of these. Braille batteries are rebranded Deka's. JC / Big Crank / HD etc.

Dimensions are pretty close to what was posted earlier.

https://braillebattery.com/collections/lightweight-agm/products/b106

Cooter
05-27-2020, 10:55 PM
510cca In a tiny and 'light' AGM!? Wow.

henshao
06-06-2020, 04:52 AM
510 PULSE cranking amps, for reference the earthX 36 is 680 pulse cranking amps. CCA unlisted for the agm batt

heagachongoose
08-23-2021, 04:31 PM
Update.

I bought the deka variant of the AGM battery. Braille over rates and deka under rates. Real performance is somewhere in between.

It fits in my 1125 with an 1190 tail section and race tail with no issues.

Over a year of use with occasional rides and tender when not in use.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B004756TMW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_BM6H8AD3FXNW35A94PQH?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1