EBR in World Superbike

[Hughlysses]

More info on the EBR testing:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/canepa-pegram-test-team-ebr-hero-superbikes-in-florida-and-louisiana/#.VJi-JYn0ABo.facebook

Apparently they've already tested at NOLA, but no mention of lap times there.

[Hughlysses]

On-board video at Jennings from Canepa:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40PrakrvFQ

[Scott]

On-board video at Jennings from Canepa:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40PrakrvFQ

:jawdrop: Wow! It looks like he's going to scrape his bars. Amazing!

I'm finding myself getting excited, but then I try to reign it in. Things sound positive at the moment, but I can't help remembering all those dismal races last year . . . followed by the press release telling us how well they did.:headshake:

I think I'm most hopeful with the changes to the problems I imagine last year.

This is mostly speculation on my part, but based on what we saw and snippets of interviews, I picture Geoff pulling into the pits, saying "Guys, what we really need is X. Can you work on that?" And they nod and smile and talk amongst themselves in Italian before sending him back on the track." Then once he's back on the track, they scoff and laugh. "What do Americans know about motorcycle racing? All they know about is Nascar and huge ovals."

They do a few simple adjustments but don't really address the major, difficult issues. From their point of view, the bike's just not good enough and that's EBR's problem, not theirs. They're just putting in time until they can switch to a 'real bike' next year. And we saw the result. No real improvement through the season even though they were working with a bike that surely had room for improvement.

Now in 2015, we still have the huge challenges that they dealt with last year, but Pegram is the big difference. When he pulls into the pits and says: "Guys, what we really need is X. Can you work on that?", it's not going to fall on deaf ears. They're going to work on it or they're not going to keep their jobs.

The next week, when Pegram asks about progress, they'll have an answer. Maybe they'll have improved something or maybe they'll say: "Larry, we're stumped." In that case, he'll get on the phone and talk to Erik and he'll get them in touch with the right engineers or suppliers who can help them do better.

At least that's what I'm hoping now that we have someone who really cares and really wants to accomplish something and won't be able to point fingers at anyone but himself if they can't at least improve.

[mackja]

I am just amazed at how easy he makes it look, I was just their couple of weeks ago and I was working hard to get in the low to mid 130's. I to am looking forward to next year, really think some positive results will start to show. Main thing right now is HP, they get the HP up and everything else will fall in place.

[Hughlysses]

This would seem to be as good a start to the season as we could hope for. OTOH, I guess the fact that they haven't said anything about their results at NOLA is somewhat telling. Despite the fact that Danny Eslick managed a 2nd place finish on his EBR in the AMA Superbike race there in 2012 (dropped to third due to a minor penalty), that track supposedly has a much longer straightaway and consequently ~20 MPH higher top speeds. Also note that Canepa was fastest with a dual disk setup at Jennings; it seems if dual disks are indeed better, that would show up to a much larger extent at NOLA. At any rate, I'm sure the team got some valuable info and Canepa enters the European WSBK test sessions in January having a much better idea of what the bike is capable of doing. We can also hope that the factory guys have been developing additional go-fast parts not included on these bikes which were Larry's 2014 AMA bikes with WSBK suspension bits and electronics added.

[Classax]

:jawdrop: Wow! It looks like he's going to scrape his bars. Amazing!

I'm finding myself getting excited, but then I try to reign it in. Things sound positive at the moment, but I can't help remembering all those dismal races last year . . . followed by the press release telling us how well they did.:headshake:

I think I'm most hopeful with the changes to the problems I imagine last year.

This is mostly speculation on my part, but based on what we saw and snippets of interviews, I picture Geoff pulling into the pits, saying "Guys, what we really need is X. Can you work on that?" And they nod and smile and talk amongst themselves in Italian before sending him back on the track." Then once he's back on the track, they scoff and laugh. "What do Americans know about motorcycle racing? All they know about is Nascar and huge ovals."

They do a few simple adjustments but don't really address the major, difficult issues. From their point of view, the bike's just not good enough and that's EBR's problem, not theirs. They're just putting in time until they can switch to a 'real bike' next year. And we saw the result. No real improvement through the season even though they were working with a bike that surely had room for improvement.

Now in 2015, we still have the huge challenges that they dealt with last year, but Pegram is the big difference. When he pulls into the pits and says: "Guys, what we really need is X. Can you work on that?", it's not going to fall on deaf ears. They're going to work on it or they're not going to keep their jobs.

The next week, when Pegram asks about progress, they'll have an answer. Maybe they'll have improved something or maybe they'll say: "Larry, we're stumped." In that case, he'll get on the phone and talk to Erik and he'll get them in touch with the right engineers or suppliers who can help them do better.

At least that's what I'm hoping now that we have someone who really cares and really wants to accomplish something and won't be able to point fingers at anyone but himself if they can't at least improve. I can understand what you're saying but by the same token I can see why the Italians were doomed to fail. The EBR is just a different animal. Every trackday I have to convince the tech guys NO my chain is not otight, the bottom run stays at a constant tension due to an idler gear, the slack is on the top, and the bike sits at the top of its range of rear suspension travel when at rest, it doesn't sag under it own weight in the rear. No I don't need so little rebound damping, No the whole bike dives on when hard on the brakes not just the front. No it doesn't pull to one side on the brakes, and on and on. Lets not even talk about tuning the engine. You can get yourself really out of sorts setting the bike up with what works for everyone else. So I can see it all going bad quickly if the team was resistant to the advice the Americans were giving them.

[Scott]

I can understand what you're saying but by the same token I can see why the Italians were doomed to fail. The EBR is just a different animal. Every trackday I have to convince the tech guys NO my chain is not otight, the bottom run stays at a constant tension due to an idler gear, the slack is on the top, and the bike sits at the top of its range of rear suspension travel when at rest, it doesn't sag under it own weight in the rear. No I don't need so little rebound damping, No the whole bike dives on when hard on the brakes not just the front. No it doesn't pull to one side on the brakes, and on and on. Lets not even talk about tuning the engine. You can get yourself really out of sorts setting the bike up with what works for everyone else. So I can see it all going bad quickly if the team was resistant to the advice the Americans were giving them.

I agree. And on this topic, it's interesting to note that Pegram's first weekend on the bike was dismal. By the second round, he had scored a 6th place finish. By the third round, he had a 4th place finish. For the fourth round, he skipped AMA and scored WSBK points, and by the 6th and final round (of a season that was so short he barely had a chance to get started), he had a podium. That begs the question: "What could he have done with a few more rounds?"

Arguably, that kind of progress far exceeded anything May was able to achieve over several longer seasons. And Pegram's progress over that very short season certainly looked more impressive than any progress Aaron or Geoff made over the much longer WSBK season.

Larry has either learned the bike much quicker than anyone else, OR adapted the bike to make it better more effectively than anyone else.

At his age, Larry's going to need a pretty amazing bike under him to avoid embarrassment in WSBK, so it will be interesting to see what he can do not just on the track but behind the scenes between races.

[Hughlysses]

Pit Pass Radio Interviews:

Larry Pegram on 9 December:

http://www.pitpassmoto.com/podcasts/larry-pegram-e br-team-owner-team-hero-ebr-12-9-14/

Erik Buell on on 23 December:

http://www.pitpassmoto.com/podcasts/erik-buell-own er-ebr-motorcycles-12-23-14/

[Hughlysses]

I found the interview with Pegram (link above) pretty telling, and it seems to back up Scott's thoughts above. They ask Larry how hard it was for his team to earn points at Laguna Seca, and he basically says "not all that hard".

[Scott]

Pit Pass Radio Interviews:

Larry Pegram on 9 December:

http://www.pitpassmoto.com/podcasts/larry-pegram-e br-team-owner-team-hero-ebr-12-9-14/

Erik Buell on on 23 December:

http://www.pitpassmoto.com/podcasts/erik-buell-own er-ebr-motorcycles-12-23-14/

I like when they ask Erik if Larry or Niccolo was faster.:lol:

[Classax]

Before we get to high on Pegram or low on May and Yates, let us remember that May's best in that Laguna race was .23 quicker than Pegram, both were a full three seconds off the leaders and gapped by almost 30 seconds at the end, which as I recall was red flagged when Larry finished in the points. If May was that quick on a less than optimal set up of the bike, and I think May and Yates both began to show improvement after that race. they both might have been more competitive with the new rules, knowledge of the tracks, data for each track and a team that understands the machines in 2015. Yates never really seemed to be in the running, but May was making a bit of head way into the rear of the pack by the end. Still all very exciting.

[Scott]

Before we get to high on Pegram or low on May and Yates, let us remember that May's best in that Laguna race was .23 quicker than Pegram, both were a full three seconds off the leaders and gapped by almost 30 seconds at the end, which as I recall was red flagged when Larry finished in the points. If May was that quick on a less than optimal set up of the bike, and I think May and Yates both began to show improvement after that race. they both might have been more competitive with the new rules, knowledge of the tracks, data for each track and a team that understands the machines in 2015. Yates never really seemed to be in the running, but May was making a bit of head way into the rear of the pack by the end. Still all very exciting.

I'm not at all high on Pegram as a rider, but I am intrigued by him as a bike developer and team manager and your numbers support that.

As a rider, I believe Pegram is a little older and little slower than May.

Laguna was Pegram's fourth round on the bike while May had been riding and developing the bike for (4 years?).

May had a WSBK team and experience racing against WSBK riders and experience on WSBK tires. Both Pegram and May had knowledge of the track.

Considering all that, if you had offered a bet prior to the race, I would not have hesitated to put down money on May easily beating Pegram at Laguna Seca.

But it didn't work out that way. And that leads me to believe Pegram has figured some things out about the bike (and/or has a better synergy with the bike and/or has a better team and/or has better communication with that team) that May hasn't over his time riding. That combined with Canepa has me intrigued. I don't expect Pegram to do much better than May and Yates did . . . but I think there is a possibility that he can give himself a better bike than May or Yates ever had and that could at least get him in a few superpoles.

[Classax]

Yes I think May and Yates could have done much better if they had the set up strategies they ended the year with from the beginning. I do like the fact the Pegram feels the bike is good enough to score points. I like the fact that they are going to test more than last year. I think EBR will be ok this year.

[Scott]

One intriguing possibility with Pegram (and I doubt this is the plan - just some wishful thinking on my part) is it provides more flexibility than they had last year.

For example, if they spot a talented young rider in Moto-America or some of the support classes of WSBK they could let him ride a couple rounds on Pegram's bike, see how he does and either give him a longer-term contract, put Pegram back on or try a different young rider.

[Hughlysses]

Pegram: Canepa at EBR is going to be a big help

http://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/212843/1/pegram-canepa-at-ebr-is-going-to-be-a-big-help.html

[Scott]

Pegram: Canepa at EBR is going to be a big help

http://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/212843/1/pegram-canepa-at-ebr-is-going-to-be-a-big-help.html

:thumb:

Canepa has me excited. It may be a bit . . . politically incorrect around here to suggest that May and Yates aren't great riders - they are great riders by any reasonable measure, but the riders in WSBK are really great riders.

Ideally, I'd like to see two Canepa-type riders, but one is better than none.

And since they'll be going to the official practice, just by doing that, they'll be ahead of where the team was this time last year.

[Scott]

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/world-superbike-testing-to-resume-january-14-in-portugal/

[Hughlysses]

Larry posted to Facebook tonight that he's back in the US for 6 days, then off to Italy to the Team Hero/EBR team shops to make sure they're for the test session.

[Scott]

Larry posted to Facebook tonight that he's back in the US for 6 days, then off to Italy to the Team Hero/EBR team shops to make sure they're for the test session.

We'll have some real information soon regarding how realistic their chances are going to be this year.

We're going to have to be careful when we start seeing the results because it looks like different teams are participating at different tests.

Since they were basically dead last in 2014, anything better than that will encouraging. But even if they are dead last, the weaker teams probably won't be at the test, so we shouldn't get too discouraged too soon.

I do expect Larry to be bringing up the rear, but hopefully Niccolo will be a few spots ahead of him.

Last year they were typically riding 104 - 105% of the fastest riders, so I'll be very interested in that number. If they're slowest at testing but at 103%, that will be better than it may appear.

[Hughlysses]

Posted on Larry Pegram's (and Team Hero/EBR's and Niccolo Canepa's) Face Book page early this morning:

320

"What a group of misfits. Heading from Milan to Portimao for first test. @ErikBuellRacing @WorldSBK"

[Scott]

:thumb:

Some Kawasaki teams were testing yesterday and today. I haven't seen any results (which is probably why they wanted a more private test.

Hopefully we'll be getting some information tomorrow on the broader test.

[Hughlysses]

Posted to Canepa's FB page this morning:

324

Caption: "The beast is ready!"

(Note the dual disk front brake on the bike in the background.)

[Scott]

P

(Note the dual disk front brake on the bike in the background.)

That detail jumped right out to me. And the brake in the foreground looks very similar to last years WSBK. Both bikes look more similar to the WSBK bikes than Pegram's AMA bike. The seat looks different than anything I've ever seen - which on its own isn't a big deal, but it seems to hint they've been doing some development and refining during the off-season and hopefully these bikes are a little ahead of what they ended last year with.

Am I wrong in thinking that big auxiliary fuel tank isn't there anymore? It would be nice if they've been able to eliminate or shrink that because it had to add weight. Maybe they used it last year because they were afraid they'd have capacity issues but found they didn't really need the extra.

[Classax]

Looks like they are serious about testing both set ups and moving forward on whatever proves to be quickest. The dual set up will have the advantage of being more aggressive in bite and longer pad life. We'll see soon enough. I find myself routing for the ZTL's but willing to accept conventionals may be easier to be quicker on at that level.

[Hughlysses]

I noticed several Italian fan's had some VERY disparaging comments about the ZTL under Niccolo's Facebook post of the above photo. Whether it's true or not, a lot of them believe the brake is the root of EBR's problems.

[Scott]

I think this is the beauty of racing - it cuts through the BS. What works continues and what doesn't gets dropped. It's the polar opposite of Harley where it's all about spin and marketing.

In some ways it would be nice if the ZTL proves itself, but if it doesn't, use something that will.

I think the negatives are overstated, but EBR can't claim advantages that they can't demonstrate.

[Hughlysses]

Am I wrong in thinking that big auxiliary fuel tank isn't there anymore? It would be nice if they've been able to eliminate or shrink that because it had to add weight. Maybe they used it last year because they were afraid they'd have capacity issues but found they didn't really need the extra.

Very interesting. Did they figure out it was unnecessary? I suppose they could have jjust left it off for testing, but that seems very unlikely since its presence is bound to change the way the bike handles. Perhaps they found somewhere better to store additional fuel?

[Scott]

Very interesting. Did they figure out it was unnecessary? I suppose they could have jjust left it off for testing, but that seems very unlikely since its presence is bound to change the way the bike handles. Perhaps they found somewhere better to store additional fuel?

I remember thinking it was a little odd that they thought they needed that big honking thing when, from some quick mental math I did at the time, it didn't seem to me that WSBK races were dramatically longer than AMA races (the tracks are often longer, but they do fewer laps). I wonder if the tank was an over-reaction and they discovered that they either didn't need it, didn't need it for most races, or maybe could go with something much smaller and more compact.

I certainly hope they're not testing without it and then will add it back on for the actual races. That would be a bad idea IMO (though it might make them look a little better in practice if that is a concern).

Hopefully we'll see some numbers soon. I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. Don't be surprised or discouraged if they're dead last.

[Scott]

Just did some quick googling. AMA lists their races as "50 mile sprints" (I'm sure some are a little longer and some are a little shorter). That translates to 80 km. WSBK lists a range for theirs of 90 - 110 km. So they are a little longer. The question is, are they using a full or partial tank for AMA races? I seem to remember someone commenting that they adjusted the amount of fuel for AMA races, so they may have some wiggle room and might be able to handle the WSBK races without an auxiliary tank. That might be the kind of key information that they gathered last year that will never be talked about, but will help make them more competitive this year.

[Classax]

I've repeatedly said the ZTL's are just as good with the benefits of lighter weight but they are also different and require a different riding style. Just as one has to approach the riding of say: a 2 stoke vs a 4stroke or a V2 vs an I4 or even a 250 vs a 1000 or a motard vs superbike, so too with the ZTL vs conventionals. Its not that one is better than the other, but they do require a different approach to get the most out of. Many riders at the WSBk level may not be willing or even capable any more of making that adjustment. I'm learning I can get on the brakes just as late as a conventional set up but I need to put more effort into the lever to do it or I can get on the brakes even later but smoother and trail them longer with more confidence since I can feel what's happening with traction at the front better than with conventionals. With conventional set up I don't need much effort at the levers at all but I must constantly be careful not to out brake myself and trail braking is a lot harder because there isn't as much feel and the power is not as linear coming on or off the brakes, which makes it FEEL like they have more power and are more aggressive. If you have spent years honing your skills on the latter, the ZTLs will take some exploration and time to figure out to get used to and exploit. JMHO I'm almost certain they will all go quicker on conventionals but prefer the handling of the ZTL's when the stop watched stop.

[Hughlysses]

Apparently today's test session was rained out. This from Larry Pegram's Facebook page:

"@LarryPegram72: 1st day of testing our @HeroMotoCorp @ErikBuellRacing for @WorldSBK @AIAPortimao was basically a day to watch it rain. ‪#‎tomorrow‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/tomorrow?source=feed_text&story_id=10153025167699872)"

[Classax]

Doesn't look like they will have much better weather today either.

[Hughlysses]

Two articles on EBR's Portimao tests:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/world-superbikes/2015/january/hero-ebr-rider-canepa-tests-again/

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/world-superbikes/2015/january/new-hero-ebr-team-takes-first-european-steps/

Interesting comments by Canepa regarding the ZTL in the first article. He clearly "gets it".

I found another blog (in Italian) which indicated the rain cleared off late in the afternoon (it's afternoon there) which enabled most teams to get some laps in even though it was still fairly cold.

[Hughlysses]

Apparently they only got a few hours of testing in late yesterday. Here are some times from testing:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/world-superbikes/2015/january/haslam-fastest-in-final-day-rush-at-portimao/

[Scott]

Apparently they only got a few hours of testing in late yesterday. Here are some times from testing:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/world-superbikes/2015/january/haslam-fastest-in-final-day-rush-at-portimao/

Nice! While we have to take those results with a big grain of salt since testing was limited and track conditions were poor, Canepa was 102.3 % of Haslam - that's a number that Geoff and Aaron never sniffed at any time under any conditions.

And just 0.3 seconds behind the 6th place rider is also very encouraging - that was a big problem last year, the huge gap between May, Yates and the mid-pack riders.

Even old man Pegram is ahead of a couple guys (at 103.8% of Haslam). I would consider this a far more positive start than I would have predicted.

[Hughlysses]

Team EBR Hero Happy With Canepa's Lap Times During Test In Portugal:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/team-ebr-hero-happy-with-canepas-lap-times-during-test-in-portugal/

[Classax]

Interesting, Canepa practically matched his best time from last year on the EVO Panigale riding an EBR RX superbike in the wet. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

More importantly he realizes it takes a different approach to riding style to be quick on the EBR.

Don't know if I'm feeling the new livery. It reminds me of the RC51s...

[Hughlysses]

It's a strange feeling to be thinking of reasons the EBR's should be surprisingly fast rather than appallingly slow... :smirk:

[Scott]

Another interesting comparison is Pegram's 1:47.1 to May's qualifying 1.46.97 and Yate's 1:48.47.

So after few sloppy practice laps, Pegram handily beat Yates and matched May who had full practice and qualifying and 2/3 of a season of WSBK racing already under their belts.

Either Pegram is a good-bit better rider than we gave him credit for, or his bike and team are better than what May and Yates had.

I'm betting on the latter.

[Hughlysses]

Short video interview with Pegram from Portimao:

http://www.worldsbk.com/en/videos/2015/2015%20WorldSBK%20Portimao%20Test%20Larry%20Pergra m%20ITW?from_list=latest_videos

[Scott]

Short video interview with Pegram from Portimao:

http://www.worldsbk.com/en/videos/2015/2015%20WorldSBK%20Portimao%20Test%20Larry%20Pergra m%20ITW?from_list=latest_videos

I feel bad saying this, but Larry looks so . . . OLD in that video. :twitch:

I guess his times show he can still ride and probably, hopefully do a little better than Geoff did. But someone like Danny Eslick could do better than that and be building for a future.

Hopefully they can do well enough this year to interest a younger rider and Larry can put a WSBK season on his mantle and graduate to full-time manager.

[Classax]

They clearly have quicker machinery this year as the times in the wet are at or better than what May and Yates managed last year. Had the Italians been able to deliver better set ups the narrative for Hero EBR likely would have been less negative.

[Hughlysses]

On Nick's Facebook page this morning:
328
"Good morning from Jerez!"

[Scott]

Nice! I like the colors, but I'm not sure how well they'll stand out on the grid. One nice thing with the previous scheme was I generally felt I could spot them easily in the pack. Hopefully this will be similarly recognizable once I've looked for it a few times.

Weather looks cool but dry so they should be able to get some laps in. I don't know why they've got the rain tire on that bike. That may indicate it's not the one they'll be using this morning. Which might also indicate they'll be going with the dual disk.

[Classax]

Hate to say it but looks like the rider part of the equation may have been good for 1.5- 2 seconds a lap. Pegram is way back but also improving. Both EBR's continued to go quicker all day. From his comments I like the fact that Canepa acknowledges the RX require a different riding style and he is trying to adapt to the bike as much as asking the crew to adapt the bike for him. I hope that stays because the EBR handles so much easier than a lot of other bikes. It has its own character, one I hope they never lose.

[Hughlysses]

Just posted to Facebook by Canepa:

"Very happy about today's test! 3 seconds faster than last year and only 1.9 seconds from the first! Thanks to my team for the hard work during these days! This EBR is working good!"

329

[Scott]

Whoaaa, wait. I may need some more information/clarification. Does he mean 3 seconds faster than Geoff and Aaron last year? He can't mean 3 seconds faster than he was on his Ducati.

Are there some times posted somewhere?

[Classax]

I think he means 3 seconds faster than the EBR's from last year and 1.9 seconds off the race winning times from September. He did go faster than he did on the Ducati though.

[Scott]

Thanks. That makes sense. Three seconds better than he did last year sounded too crazy to be true.

[Hughlysses]

Pegram posted a couple of pics to FB about an hour ago:

330331

The new paint scheme looks good. Hopefully Larry's times will improve.

[Scott]

One week until the start of the 2015 season!

[totoche38]

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/13/15/94/65/day210.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/view/13159465/14954)

[Ed / AF1 Racing]

The EBR is getting faster

1. Alex Lowes GBR Voltcom Crescent Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 30.859s
2. Jonathan Rea GBR Kawasaki Racing ZX-10R 1m 30.880s
3. Jordi Torres ESP Red Devils Roma Aprilia RSV4 1m 30.971s
4. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki Racing ZX-10R 1m 31.075s
5. Leon Haslam GBR Red Devils Roma Aprilia RSV4 1m 31.102s
6. Chaz Davies GBR Aruba.it Racing Ducati 1199R 1m 31.296s
7. David Salom ESP Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 31.510s
8. Nico Terol ESP Althea Ducati 1199R 1m 31.593s
9. Michael van der Mark NED PATA Honda CBR1000RR 1m 31.854s
10. Niccolo Canepa ITA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 1m 32.002s
11. Sylvain Guintoli FRA PATA Honda CBR1000RR 1m 32.220s
12. Leon Camier GBR MV Agusta F4 RR 1m 32.238s
13. Tati Mercado ARG Barni Ducati 1199R 1m 32.239s
14. Sylvain Barrier FRA BMW Italia S1000RR 1m 32.268s
15. Matteo Baiocco ITA Althea Ducati 1199R 1m 32.430s
16. Randy de Puniet FRA Voltcom Crescent Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 33.137s
17. Roman Ramos ESP GO Eleven Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 33.349s
18. Matthew Walters AUS Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 33.354s
19. Jed Metcher AUS Race Center Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 33.570s
20. Santiago Barragan ESP Grillini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 34.104s
21. Larry Pegram USA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 1m 34.274s
22. Christophe Ponsson LUX Grillini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 34.966s
23. Gabor Rizmayer HUN Team Toth BMW S1000RR 1m 35.351s
24. Imre Toth HUN Team Toth BMW S1000RR 1m 36.112s
25. Davide Giugliano ITA Aruba.it Racing Ducati 1199R No Time

[Scott]

The EBR is getting faster

1. Alex Lowes GBR Voltcom Crescent Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 30.859s
2. Jonathan Rea GBR Kawasaki Racing ZX-10R 1m 30.880s
3. Jordi Torres ESP Red Devils Roma Aprilia RSV4 1m 30.971s
4. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki Racing ZX-10R 1m 31.075s
5. Leon Haslam GBR Red Devils Roma Aprilia RSV4 1m 31.102s
6. Chaz Davies GBR Aruba.it Racing Ducati 1199R 1m 31.296s
7. David Salom ESP Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 31.510s
8. Nico Terol ESP Althea Ducati 1199R 1m 31.593s
9. Michael van der Mark NED PATA Honda CBR1000RR 1m 31.854s
10. Niccolo Canepa ITA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 1m 32.002s
11. Sylvain Guintoli FRA PATA Honda CBR1000RR 1m 32.220s
12. Leon Camier GBR MV Agusta F4 RR 1m 32.238s
13. Tati Mercado ARG Barni Ducati 1199R 1m 32.239s
14. Sylvain Barrier FRA BMW Italia S1000RR 1m 32.268s
15. Matteo Baiocco ITA Althea Ducati 1199R 1m 32.430s
16. Randy de Puniet FRA Voltcom Crescent Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 33.137s
17. Roman Ramos ESP GO Eleven Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 33.349s
18. Matthew Walters AUS Pedercini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 33.354s
19. Jed Metcher AUS Race Center Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 33.570s
20. Santiago Barragan ESP Grillini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 34.104s
21. Larry Pegram USA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 1m 34.274s
22. Christophe Ponsson LUX Grillini Kawasaki ZX-10R 1m 34.966s
23. Gabor Rizmayer HUN Team Toth BMW S1000RR 1m 35.351s
24. Imre Toth HUN Team Toth BMW S1000RR 1m 36.112s
25. Davide Giugliano ITA Aruba.it Racing Ducati 1199R No Time

:thumb:

Very encouraging start! It's not inconceivable that by the time Super-Pole comes around, Canepa could be faster than he was on his Ducati last year. And while Pegram's not setting the world on fire, he's looking better than Geoff or Aaron did last year. And I suspect Larry has more experience than most of the people he'll be mixing it up with, so hopefully he can get into Super-Pole and then with some attrition and some good moves by him, a 15th with points isn't too crazy to hope for.

And while I had a lot of faith in Canepa, I would have assumed he'd be down around 15th place right now and spend most of the season working up to 10th. If he can actually finish a race at 10th or better in this round, that would exceed anything I ever would have hoped for.

But since we haven't seen any actual racing yet, I don't want to get ahead of myself or get my hopes too high. But last year we knew by the first practice session that there wasn't much point in watching the race, so it's pretty exciting to see them doing this well at this stage from that perspective.

[Scott]

Heck, after last year just not seeing EBR's in that last two spots is pretty cool.

[zviadi]

Who knows - Canepa chased with ZTL brakes or dual brake discs?

According to this information, Canepa eleventh:

339

We still have to consider the time of Giuliano, before his accident.

[Scott]

Who knows - Canepa chased with ZTL brakes or dual brake discs?

According to this information, Canepa eleventh:

339

We still have to consider the time of Giuliano, before his accident.

I haven't seen anything official, but I thought I saw some photos with the dual discs on the first day of testing and others with the single disc on the second day. And they had better times on the second day, but that's highly anecdotal and I don't want to start any rumors. It seems they did test both, so I expect them to use whichever set-up worked best for the remainder of testing and racing, so we should know in a few days.

I don't really care which they use as long as they're confident it's the best set-up . . . but it would be nice to see the single disc work.

Motorcycles have become so standardized and boring over the past 40 years, it would be nice to see at least something shaken up a bit.

[Scott]

Disappointing Niccolo crashed out, but some definite bright points. Points in the first round for Pegram is a clear improvement over last year, and the future looks very bright for Niccolo.

But I can't help looking at the Supersport times and noticing that all of the top 9 have qualifying times that are as good or better than Larry's. I'd think those riders could be 1-2 seconds quicker on the EBR over what they can do on a 600. I'd love to see Larry steal one of those young riders to take his place and have two competitive young riders to build over the next five years.

[zviadi]

If Canepa has not fallen, in the second race could be in the top ten...

[Hughlysses]

143 photos from Phillip Island have been posted at Nic's Facebook page here:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.10152568141656782.1073741876.40906401781&type=1

Nic has a VERY attractive girlfriend. :wink:

[Hughlysses]

Photo of Nic in mid-crash at Phillip Island Race 1 from his Facebook page:

349

[Hughlysses]

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/team-hero-ebrs-canepa-says-his-injured-ankle-should-not-be-a-problem-in-thailand/

[Scott]

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/team-hero-ebrs-canepa-says-his-injured-ankle-should-not-be-a-problem-in-thailand/

:thumb:

I'm trying to decide if I'm ambitious enough to watch some of the live timing tonight or just check the times tomorrow morning.

And I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it's a pretty cool video of Cory West at COTA:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stoxNO0KOJw

[Hughlysses]

It's about time to crank this thread back up for Aragon.

Nic #14 in FP1! Not bad!

Complete results here: http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/ESP1/SBK/L1A/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f7584 9b

[Hughlysses]

Both races completed by both riders. A decent weekend for EBR:

Race 1 results: http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/E SP1/SBK/001/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923 820dcc509a6f75849b (http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/ESP1/SBK/001/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f7584 9b)

Race 2 results: http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/E SP1/SBK/002/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923 820dcc509a6f75849b (http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/ESP1/SBK/002/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f7584 9b)

[Scott]

Both races completed by both riders. A decent weekend for EBR:

Race 1 results: http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/E SP1/SBK/001/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923 820dcc509a6f75849b (http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/ESP1/SBK/001/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f7584 9b)

Race 2 results: http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/E SP1/SBK/002/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923 820dcc509a6f75849b (http://resources.worldsbk.com/files/results/2015/ESP1/SBK/002/CLA/Results.pdf?version=c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f7584 9b)

:thumb:

Without looking it up, I'm nearly certain this is the first time ever that EBR has had 4 top 19 finishes in one weekend.

After the first couple rounds, this is exactly what they needed. No heroics, just solid finishes that they can build on.

With that said, I think it's time for Larry to take a look at what he's doing and decide if he should really be out there. I realize the TV show is probably involved, but I think it would make just as interesting programing to see him step aside for a younger rider with the ultimate goal of being the best team possible.

It may be hard to find another Canepa, but if he could find an 18 year old who knows the tracks and is maybe a couple seconds behind Canepa, that rider could at least build toward a future.

[d_adams]

IE; Chas Hern. Young rider, plenty fast (way faster than I'll ever be) and willing to ride the wheels off the bike I think.

[Hughlysses]

With that said, I think it's time for Larry to take a look at what he's doing and decide if he should really be out there. I realize the TV show is probably involved, but I think it would make just as interesting programing to see him step aside for a younger rider with the ultimate goal of being the best team possible.

It's worth noting that Larry's apparently used the ZTL (whatever EBR calls it) brake in all 3 races, and it was reported on Badweb he was having to start braking much earlier than Canepa entering the turns at Aragon. No doubt that is costing him some time, but hopefully it's enabling them to improve the braking system. Given equal bikes, he'd be somewhat closer to Canepa than he's been so far.

BTW- Canepa posted 120-some photos of last weekend's activities to his Facebook page this morning.

[Hughlysses]

If true, this is good news in light of yesterday's announcement:

http://m.crash.net/wsbk/news/217661/1/ebr-racing-at-assen-despite-manufacturer-bankruptcy.html

[Scott]

If true, this is good news in light of yesteday's announcement:

http://m.crash.net/wsbk/news/217661/1/ebr-racing-at-assen-despite-manufacturer-bankruptcy.html


:thumb: That's a very interesting puzzle piece. It would seem to indicate that Hero hasn't simply cut and run (which I've never really thought, but I think that would have been the worst case scenario).

I think Hero wants to continue making EBR's and the only thing that will stop them is if somebody else wants to make EBR's more.

[Hughlysses]

SPOILER ALERT






Team Hero/EBR had a fairly miserable weekend. Nic managed a 15th place finish in race 1 and scored a point; Larry was DNF. Both racers were DNF in race 2.

According to Nic, he was fully 1/2 second faster a lap in race 2 but the exhaust pipe broke with ~1 lap remaining. Larry says he missed a shift in race 1 and then snatched the gear, which snapped the chain. He believes the DNF in race 2 was a failed clutch.

Certainly nothing to brag about, but STILL better than last year and at least no grenaded engines. I imagine they were off their game at least a little after last week's closure announcement even if they have been promised funding for the rest of the WSBK season.

[Scott]

Hey, points are points and they don't come easy at this level. If they can get things together a little bit more, they could start to challenge BMW for points. My hope going into the season was Niccolo could run around 15th at the beginning of the season and move up to 10th by the end, and he seems to be pretty consistent around 15 now when he can finish.

If broader events weren't such a mess, I'd be starting to get into it and root for them to make some steady progress, but it's a little hard to get into it at the moment.

[Hughlysses]

Well, now it appears the WSBK team is in jeopardy:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/hero-ebr-world-superbike-team-to-learn-fate-thursday/

:doublefli:

[zviadi]

The team Hero-EBR left the league WSBK...
Pegram promised to return with his team in the near future.

[Hughlysses]

Zviadi, in case you didn't see the other thread, it appears Hero owes EBR ~$20M for engineering services and that their failure to pay may have been a deliberate move to force EBR into receivership:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/hero-motocorp-ltd-trouble-in-india/

[zviadi]

I read all the threads and know about what HERO owed to Eric $ 20 million for engineering.
Only here the news of the termination of performance of the team EBR at WSBK dated today morning.