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View Full Version : When will EBR be fully operational? Questions to the Owner.



Plotter
08-10-2015, 06:11 PM
Just a thread to discuss when and what will be fully operational first.

I guess the biggest questions reside around the warranties... When will the dealers be notified that warranties are good again?

When will the website work again... etc etc...

Post what you want to get running again, or questions to the new owner, and maybe he can let us get an insight into how things are going and what the priorities are...

Bagger
08-12-2015, 12:26 AM
Well I guess EBR first will have to take time to get the staff back, and for thous who already have got a new job, find someone who can replace them.
2. Get back in contact with the dealers. Find out who will sell and take service on the bikes, including warranty question.
3. Get dealers needed stuff, bikes, parts, and so on.
4. Get the website up, the website will not only show customers that EBR is back, it will also be a good stage to inform public.
5. Taking time to inform public where we all stand, what the plan is for the future.
6. Rock & Roll

Hughlysses
08-12-2015, 05:32 AM
A big question has been raised on Badweb about this. Receivership seems to mean that the company we call EBR no longer exists; Belfer is starting a new company. If so, there may be a lot of legal hurdles to be jumped through (business licenses, EPA certifications, etc.) before ANY motorcycles can be sold. Hopefully there is a way to shortcut any such requirements; apparently there are 100 complete motorcycles sitting in the factory and parts to build another 250. They're the same motorcycles that were legal to sell ~4 months ago. Possibly this just means a lot of formal notification letters have to be sent out and then production can resume. Fingers crossed.

Plotter
08-12-2015, 09:27 AM
Do you think they could get the website back up and start doing warranty and parts services?

I know for many people and dealerships, the faster the warranties and parts are back online, as well as the service department in general, could go a long way to restoring the faith.

Doosh
08-12-2015, 10:07 AM
I just want parts. I bought knowing there's no warranty. I'm not sure I'd want a dealer working on my bike anyway. You should have seen how it was set up when I pushed it on the trailer -- just dumb stuff. The chain was tight as a nun.

kneepucker
08-12-2015, 11:40 AM
I just want parts. I bought knowing there's no warranty. I'm not sure I'd want a dealer working on my bike anyway. You should have seen how it was set up when I pushed it on the trailer -- just dumb stuff. The chain was tight as a nun.


:+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:

Mike
08-12-2015, 02:16 PM
Parts ARE available..! I've bought a bunch myself.
Warranties are a different story.
I need a front rotor and left side upper body panel myself.

Mike

Bruce Belfer
08-12-2015, 06:15 PM
A big question has been raised on Badweb about this. Receivership seems to mean that the company we call EBR no longer exists; Belfer is starting a new company. If so, there may be a lot of legal hurdles to be jumped through (business licenses, EPA certifications, etc.) before ANY motorcycles can be sold. Hopefully there is a way to shortcut any such requirements; apparently there are 100 complete motorcycles sitting in the factory and parts to build another 250. They're the same motorcycles that were legal to sell ~4 months ago. Possibly this just means a lot of formal notification letters have to be sent out and then production can resume. Fingers crossed.

This hits the nail on the head. Although some aspects of operations are still in place, some have to be started from scratch. We are finding all the shortcuts and getting the obstacles out of the way. Proud of the team. Sit tight.

Bruce

dmhines
08-12-2015, 07:27 PM
I am sure that EBR was purchased at auction free and clear of all debts and liabilities ... this includes warranties. The only way warranty's will be honored if its done as a good will gesture by the new owner.

Scott
08-13-2015, 08:25 AM
I would imagine the first step is to 'get the band back together', and that's going to take some time since people have probably made other commitments and will need to give notice, move back to the area etc. Then once they can determine who they have, they'll have to fill in the holes and that will take even longer.

Once they've got at least a partial team they can start making calls to suppliers and dealers and attempt to get as many of them back on board as possible. And they'll have to find replacements for those that aren't on board. If permits, certifications do need to be re-applied for, that could be a lengthy process.

. . . so I think we all have to be patient and take some comfort that things are happening (even though we probably won't see all the behind-the-scenes activities). And we should feel confident at this point that the answer to the biggest, most pressing question: "Will I be able to get parts?" Should certainly be 'yes'.

Bagger
08-13-2015, 08:51 AM
A couple of question I hope Bruce can answer, and answers that I think is important.
Will the motorcycles be sold as EBR, or will the bikes get a new name?
How big will the production be in the start, can we expect same amount as was produced at the end of EBR, or will it be smaller?
IF it will be a smaller staff, and less produced bikes, what is the expected delivery time after a new order?
Will the production be the same bikes as before, or will a model fall out, perhaps a new model?
IF the same models will continue be produced, can we expect a 2016 model, or just a copy of 2015?

And Bruce, yes we are all real interested, perhaps asking to much, but again, we are the ppl who will buy this bikes :)

roadking1
08-13-2015, 03:28 PM
First and foremost, sell bikes: 1) Advertise the bike to let the public know just how good it is (it doesn't need any improvements/further development for the time being), 2) get website back up and warranties going again to give people the confidence to buy.

Plotter
08-13-2015, 03:29 PM
I am sure that EBR was purchased at auction free and clear of all debts and liabilities ... this includes warranties. The only way warranty's will be honored if its done as a good will gesture by the new owner.

The warranty is a big deal to dealers as well. They are the ones that perform this work, and the dealer network needs this back to get it's customers back. The dealers are upset because they think they have lost a customer base and the support from EBR. They are performing warranty work without EBR reimbursing them, so either they are taking the loss, or shifting the loss to the owners of the motorcycles... The best marketing campaigns are with positive feedback from owners. If you cut the warranties, you lose a good portion of the owners that purchased at full price... If you want the brand to have legitimacy, it would need to offer coverage of the old warranties, so that the dealers can keep people coming back. You might be protected from liability, but I don't think this is the right thing, or correct thing... If you were now in the market for a new motorcycle and you saw what just happened, and then that the old warranties were not covered.. what would you do? I would think very strongly about going in another direction... Maybe that is naïve thinking on my part... maybe on dmhines part... I dunno...

kneepucker
08-13-2015, 04:11 PM
Parts ARE available..! I've bought a bunch myself.
Warranties are a different story.
I need a front rotor and left side upper body panel myself.

Mike


Not the parts I need..... race parts.....not just OEM replacement parts, and yes, lots of front rotors..... I had to make my own GP shift lever/linkage.

I was really hoping to track/race my EBR for this upcoming CMRA event at Cresson next weekend, but it looks like holding on to my Honda was a good idea, I'll be running it until I can get the EBR fully kitted, tuned and ready.

Hughlysses
08-13-2015, 04:30 PM
This hits the nail on the head. Although some aspects of operations are still in place, some have to be started from scratch. We are finding all the shortcuts and getting the obstacles out of the way. Proud of the team. Sit tight.

Bruce

Thanks for the response. It's good to have an idea of what's going on behind the scenes; it makes the waiting just a little easier. I'm not surprised your team is on top of it.

Doosh
08-13-2015, 06:29 PM
I was really hoping to track/race my EBR for this upcoming CMRA event at Cresson next weekend, but it looks like holding on to my Honda was a good idea, I'll be running it until I can get the EBR fully kitted, tuned and ready.

ill be there, probably paddock near Hirsch. come say hi.

i can probably help you get the ebr into race trim.

ljm
08-13-2015, 08:05 PM
For my part, I have a bunch of parts that are wear items for the RX/SX. The RS parts are a little bit harder to come by, but not racing so unless I am stupid or something unforseen happens, won't need any for the time being. Short of a catastrophic failure, I don't much care about the warranty. If it is simple, I can fix it. If it is complex, I know a guy. I just want to see the company up and running again and figure I can absorb some problems to help keep it in the black.

Looking forward to the long run.

Plotter
08-13-2015, 08:16 PM
Let's hear from Bruce on the warranties... Quite a few people would like to know... Any insight?

kneepucker
08-13-2015, 09:04 PM
ill be there, probably paddock near Hirsch. come say hi.

i can probably help you get the ebr into race trim.


I'll come find you.....unless the high temps are still 100+, then I'll wait till the next round. I'm a "just for fun" racer, not chasing points, and dont ride much through July/August.

Doosh
08-14-2015, 09:17 AM
I'm a "just for fun" racer, not chasing points, and dont ride much through July/August.

That would be all of us. Cresson is best in the heat, IMHO.

Need4speed
08-16-2015, 03:00 PM
As is probably evident; most of us that own an EBR are really looking to have parts available. I assume that the hurdle to get parts available on a website for purchase is much quicker then getting production back up and running (less manning, no distributes needed, can start with current parts inventory, and I assume less legal issues). I also assume the revenue from sales of Parts would be nice to get going while working through the other hurdles required for more. Is there a timeline for parts yet?

mrlogix
08-16-2015, 07:17 PM
just my .02, if they were heavy on small parts from other manufactures and contracted suppliers it may take a little bit until they have the parts available. They would have to check with a lawyer/accountant, but if they dedicated a % of the on hand parts (seen Belfer post that about enough on hand parts to assemble another 250 bikes) to help honor warranty claims (remember the faithful?) they might be able to get a tax break on part of on hand inventory while keeping current EBR owners up and running. Don't know if this seems right to anyone else, but I know if I had one and he offered to do something like this to keep the current product owners happy would be a stand up thing to do. Just sayin'....

Hughlysses
08-24-2015, 12:38 PM
Man, this lack of any news is killing me. Hopefully all is proceeding well in East Troy.

The ONLY thing of remote interest I've seen in the last week is that an HX250R has been spotted being tested in India. I guess that means Hero's already been to the factory in East Troy, picked up their $2.8M worth of stuff, and gone home.

Bruce Belfer
08-24-2015, 12:56 PM
HERO stuff has been segregated away from the EBR factory in a separate building. We are working hard to clear the remaining hurdles left by the HERO settlement. Good progress being made every day. Hang in there, Faithful. Good news coming soon.

Bruce

Hughlysses
08-24-2015, 01:09 PM
Thanks for the update, Bruce. I appreciate the info.

Doosh
08-24-2015, 02:37 PM
How do you spell HERO?


G T F O

Scott
08-24-2015, 03:26 PM
Hang in there, Faithful. Good news coming soon.

Bruce

Hanging in. Waiting for the good news like a kid waiting for Christmas. :biggrin:

ReadyXB
08-24-2015, 05:02 PM
Thank you, Bruce.

buell-fan
08-24-2015, 05:56 PM
Glad to hear everything is progressing well Bruce. I can't wait to see what you guys are putting together.

Classax
08-25-2015, 08:44 AM
Best of fortunes Bruce.

I would suggest that at some point in the future before you go public with your next steps that you and your team host a conference call with your key remaining dealers, particularly the sponsor of this forum AF1 racing, and some of the owners who have lived with these machines and the EBR experience for the last two years. Some critical mistakes were made by EBR early on and YOU must not repeat them nor approach the problems in the same way because the results will prove even more catastrophic for the brand and company. There is still a ton of bad information out there concerning these machines. Worse than that, was perceived lack of communication between EBR and the dealer network. While novel the service manual is NOT what your core buyer is looking for. Your market in my opinion are guys and gals who are, proud of being different, prefer v twins for their sound, narrowness, and or power delivery, value corner speed and handling over outright horsepower, and reliability over style. They tend to have grease under their fingernails. They are information addicts.

Our informal poll shows that while the average S1krr, Panigale and even fewer Nippon I4s is only likely to see a race track by less than 8% of their owners, where as in our small sample 52% of EBR owners are active participants in track days or racing, and of those 75% ride both track and street on the same machine, so it would seem getting the race support side of the business (which was sustainable prior to production) might be the first easy win. There are more and more guys starting to win at the club level but parts are scarce.

In terms of electronics I do NOT think your buyers want anti wheelie,slide, launch, skill control. The 1190 even with 20 more hp simply doesn't need it, the geometry puts the power to the ground in a way that negates its usefulness. Most of your owners don't even turn it on. What they need is an easy way to get telemetry( speed, TPS, RPMs, coolant and oil temps) to smart devices, simple unobtrusive traction control (that doesn't limit peak power when on at lower levels) and a dash and control combination that allows TC adjustment on the fly while in lap-timer mode. At a bare minimum not another should roll out of the factory without a quickshifter! The fact that EBR was not the first bike with WiFi/Blutooth telemetry was a HUGE mistake that needs to be corrected. As a gesture to your loyal first adopters improvements 1190 series should be retrofittable to previous models. Its not too late to make the EBR an heirloom type product, machines that are geometrical superior, mechanically sound, and future proof.

After 12K miles and working through all the teething problems I can honestly recommend the RX as a first literbike, because its so easy to ride and it has enough power to keep pace with all but factory prepared it will be rebuilt this weekend and we don't pay for our parts race machines down all but the very longest straights. Corey West proved it bone stock it could run out drive and hold off S1KRRs piloted by expert racers down the longest straights at COTA. I'll take more power but I don't NEED more power. Where we need to improve is brakes. Namely pads. The whole bike is Lorenzo vs Marquez. Despite being a liter bike, it should be ridden cornerspeed style to be successful instead of point and pray like an I4.

Those are just some of my thoughts as an owner who will be on the track at least 9 more times before the end of the season and ridding the bike every day I can in between. We look forward to EBR moving forward.

Plotter
08-25-2015, 02:13 PM
Best of fortunes Bruce.

I would suggest that at some point in the future before you go public with your next steps that you and your team host a conference call with your key remaining, dealers particularly the sponsor of this forum AF1 racing, and some of the owners who have lived with these machines and the EBR experience for the last two years. Some critical mistakes were made by EBR early on and YOU must not repeat them or approach the problems in the same way because the results will prove even more catastrophic for the brand and company. There is still a ton bad information out there concerning these machines. Worse than that was perceived lack of communication between EBR and the dealer network. While novel the service manual is NOT what your core buyer is looking for. Your market in my opinion are guys and gals who are, proud of being different, prefer v twins for their sound, narrowness and or power delivery, value cornerspeed and handling over outright horsepower, and reliability over style. They tend to have grease under their fingernails. They are information addicts.

Our informal pole shows that while the average S1krr, Panigale and even fewer Nippon I4 is only likely to see a race track by less than 8% of their owners, where as in our small sample 52% of EBR owners are active participants in track days or racing, and of those 75% ride both track and street on the same machine, so it would seem getting the race support side of the business (which was sustainable prior to production) might be the first easy win. There are more and more guys starting to win at the club level but parts are scarce.

In terms of electronics I do NOT think your buyers want anti wheelie,slide, launch, skill control. The 1190 even with 20 more hp simply doesn't need it, the geometry puts the power to the ground in a way that negates its usefulness. Most of your owners don't even turn it on. What they need is and easy way to get telemetry( speed, TPS, RPMs, coolant and oil temps) to smart devices, simple unobtrusive traction control (that doesn't limit peak power when on at lower levels) and a dash and control combination that allows TC adjustment on the fly while in laptimer mode. At a bare minimum not another should roll out of the factory without a quickshifter! The fact that EBR was not the first bike with WiFi/Blutooth telemetry was a HUGE mistake that needs to be corrected. As a gesture to your loyal first adopters improvements 1190 series should be retrofittable to previous models. Its not to late too make the EBR an heirloom type product, machines that are geometrical superior, mechanically sound, and future proof.

After 12K miles and working through all the teething problems I can honestly recommend the RX as a first literbike, because its so easy to ride and it has enough power to keep pace with all but factory prepared it will be rebuilt this weekend and we don't pay for our parts race machines down all but the very longest straights. Corey West proved it bone stock it could run out drive and hold off S1KRRs piloted by expert racers down the longest straights at COTA. I'll take more power but I don't NEED more power. Where we need to improve is brakes. Namely pads. The whole bike is Lorenzo vs Marquez. Despite being a liter bike, it should be ridden cornerspeed style to be successful instead of point and pray like an I4.

Those are just some of my thoughts as an owner who will be on the track at least 9 more times before the end of the season and ridding the bike every day I can inbetween. We look forward to EBR moving forward.

:cheers::+1:

crispy
08-26-2015, 06:55 AM
Good to hear. You've a few fans down under Bruce.
I enjoy the fact that very few people in Australia are familiar with this weapon that I sit astride of, merely looking on with equal parts awe and consternation...
At the same time I realize that the brand needs more exposure to really succeed.

LineArrayNut
08-28-2015, 10:44 PM
Let's hear from Bruce on the warranties... Quite a few people would like to know... Any insight?

+ 1 any word on this, Bruce?

Hughlysses
08-29-2015, 07:32 AM
Bruce posted this to Facebook a couple of days ago in response to the question about warranties and some similar questions:


Gents, I'm sure you are aware that restarting a company takes time and effort. Sorry I'm not so active online, but that's because I'm working my ass off behind the scenes. Once there is a new company to address your questions with, all your questions will be addressed! Hang in there. I know what you need and what we have to do.

Spyder171
08-30-2015, 09:51 PM
Something I'm also wondering is for the people who bought the bikes post mortem if any sort of warranty will be offered or things like the clutch actuator that was being replaced at no cost, will be honored once again.

Scott
09-14-2015, 02:14 PM
I realize these things take time and there's probably a lot happening behind the scenes and it will still probably be quite a while before bikes are available and things are really up and running . . . but arrrrrrrrrrgghhhhhhhh.:nut:

Hughlysses
09-21-2015, 10:47 AM
Two small hints of upcoming EBR news have been dropped in the last week:

Last Monday, someone asked Erik on Facebook when we would get some good news; Erik responded "Probably end of the month."

Yesterday, our resident long-time Buell insider on Badweb posted "Could be a big week for EBR".

Hughlysses
09-22-2015, 04:08 AM
https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing/posts/101 53176817147496 (https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing/posts/10153176817147496)

Scott
09-22-2015, 05:40 AM
https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing/posts/101 53176817147496 (https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing/posts/10153176817147496)

:thumb:

Awesome! The new EBR should probably set up an Australian/Asian distribution and start from there.

Have we heard anything from Larry Pegram since the receivership? If Pegram can set up a team for Moto America and Splitlath can continue their thing, EBR could have a small but appropriate racing presence that (hopefully) wouldn't get back into WSBK until they were really ready after racing at the lower levels.

Hughlysses
10-01-2015, 08:01 AM
I was really hoping we'd see some kind of announcement this morning, but so far, nothing. It's early in the day, so maybe we'll see something before the day's out.

The only info of interest I've seen in the last week (both mentioned on Badweb) is that owners received a couple of letters from the court which had to do with dispersal of funds from the sale of EBR assets. The first letter was about payment of the Receiver and various firms that assisted in the marketing and sale of EBR assets. The second was about payments to former employees of EBR. Both letters basically said "we're getting ready to pay these folks; if you have any objections, let us know."

These actions apparently have no bearing on "new" EBR as their purchase of EBR assets has already been approved by the court.

noone1569
10-01-2015, 08:52 AM
Sigh, another month, no news.

Kind of frustrating really. I understand A LOT has to go on behind the scenes, but they have to realize that with every passing month of no news, interests wanes more and more. Dealers are frustrated, customers are frustrated, the public has no idea that EBR is even coming back in any form.

A simple press release or something would make things a lot better.

Sigh.

I'm a die hard EBR guy, but if I could even get 10k for my bike, I might just sell it at this point and pick something else up. Every month, something else breaks, all minor, but its frustrating on something that I spent WAY too much money on anyway. I paid the early adopter tax knowing that I had a 2 year warranty. Maybe I'm just bitching since I haven't ridden the EBR in a few weeks. Perhaps this weekend my point of view will change as I rip it down the track, but for this moment, I am beyond frustrated.

Sigh.

/venting over

Hughlysses
10-01-2015, 07:49 PM
Bruce posted this response to a thread on Facebook today:


I appreciate the positivity and constructive speculation. I come from the school of life that says, "When you've got something to say, say it. Til then, keep your mouth shut." That's always served me well. Won't be much longer. That's a promise. Keep the Faith.

Hellgate
10-01-2015, 08:46 PM
Best of fortunes Bruce.

I would suggest that at some point in the future before you go public with your next steps that you and your team host a conference call with your key remaining dealers, particularly the sponsor of this forum AF1 racing, and some of the owners who have lived with these machines and the EBR experience for the last two years. Some critical mistakes were made by EBR early on and YOU must not repeat them nor approach the problems in the same way because the results will prove even more catastrophic for the brand and company. There is still a ton of bad information out there concerning these machines. Worse than that, was perceived lack of communication between EBR and the dealer network. While novel the service manual is NOT what your core buyer is looking for. Your market in my opinion are guys and gals who are, proud of being different, prefer v twins for their sound, narrowness, and or power delivery, value corner speed and handling over outright horsepower, and reliability over style. They tend to have grease under their fingernails. They are information addicts.

Our informal poll shows that while the average S1krr, Panigale and even fewer Nippon I4s is only likely to see a race track by less than 8% of their owners, where as in our small sample 52% of EBR owners are active participants in track days or racing, and of those 75% ride both track and street on the same machine, so it would seem getting the race support side of the business (which was sustainable prior to production) might be the first easy win. There are more and more guys starting to win at the club level but parts are scarce.

In terms of electronics I do NOT think your buyers want anti wheelie,slide, launch, skill control. The 1190 even with 20 more hp simply doesn't need it, the geometry puts the power to the ground in a way that negates its usefulness. Most of your owners don't even turn it on. What they need is an easy way to get telemetry( speed, TPS, RPMs, coolant and oil temps) to smart devices, simple unobtrusive traction control (that doesn't limit peak power when on at lower levels) and a dash and control combination that allows TC adjustment on the fly while in lap-timer mode. At a bare minimum not another should roll out of the factory without a quickshifter! The fact that EBR was not the first bike with WiFi/Blutooth telemetry was a HUGE mistake that needs to be corrected. As a gesture to your loyal first adopters improvements 1190 series should be retrofittable to previous models. Its not too late to make the EBR an heirloom type product, machines that are geometrical superior, mechanically sound, and future proof.

After 12K miles and working through all the teething problems I can honestly recommend the RX as a first literbike, because its so easy to ride and it has enough power to keep pace with all but factory prepared it will be rebuilt this weekend and we don't pay for our parts race machines down all but the very longest straights. Corey West proved it bone stock it could run out drive and hold off S1KRRs piloted by expert racers down the longest straights at COTA. I'll take more power but I don't NEED more power. Where we need to improve is brakes. Namely pads. The whole bike is Lorenzo vs Marquez. Despite being a liter bike, it should be ridden cornerspeed style to be successful instead of point and pray like an I4.

Those are just some of my thoughts as an owner who will be on the track at least 9 more times before the end of the season and ridding the bike every day I can in between. We look forward to EBR moving forward.

Good take and good perspective, however Buell, EBR, or whatever it will be called, it needs to complete with other bikes on price and features. Walk into AF1 and Tuono V4s, RSV4s sit right next to the EBRs. Ray Charles can see which to buy.

Doug Porcaro
10-02-2015, 11:40 AM
Good take and good perspective, however Buell, EBR, or whatever it will be called, it needs to complete with other bikes on price and features. Walk into AF1 and Tuono V4s, RSV4s sit right next to the EBRs. Ray Charles can see which to buy.

Yes it's no problem for Ray they're hairy balls ugly compared to EBRs.

kneepucker
10-02-2015, 02:15 PM
Yes it's no problem for Ray they're hairy balls ugly compared to EBRs.

Did you just call the RSV4 ugly? You're prescription is a little weak......maybe you need a new pair of specs.

636

Ace117
10-02-2015, 02:30 PM
Agreed, The RSV4 is one sexy ass machine!!! And so is my RX, Im not one to discriminate make and model. A sexy machine is a sexy machine regardless of who made it.

zac4mac
10-02-2015, 09:34 PM
I just finished working on a Caponard's electricals.
I was surprised to see an XB issue on a bike very similar to the 1125/1190 platform..

Early XBs, Ulys especially seem to be haunted by the "77 connector".
The Capos have the "Brown connector" which is also an alternator-to-regulator connector.

The Aprilia, the first I've ever dealt with closely, was a nice machine.
I like it a lot, a Uly with an 1125 motor, although it needs to go on a diet...

I hope to get a chance to ride it someday, electrical work doesn't warrant a test ride... :(

Z

Scott
10-03-2015, 11:34 AM
I wouldn't call the Aprilias 'ugly', but I do think that both EBR and Ducati have cleaner, simpler lines and look leaner than the big-displacement sportbike competition (including Aprilia). I may be in the minority or not - I don't really know, but EBR does have a unique, distinctive look that will be preferred by at least some people over Aprilia, BMW etc. And EBR only needs to sell a very small fraction of what those other bikes sell to get into the realm of profitability. As long as at least some people prefer the EBR, they'll get back on their feet.

637

638

Doug Porcaro
10-05-2015, 11:51 AM
I can't get past its face. Reminds me of the three-eyed mutant fish from The Simpsons. Clean smooth streamlining is the beauty my eye beholds. If we all liked the same things this world would be a very boring place :)

And I don't think it's ugly in general, just compared to the RX. Still more attractive than many.

noone1569
10-05-2015, 12:07 PM
Reminds me of my trailer yesterday
639

Doug Porcaro
10-05-2015, 03:34 PM
To me that's a landslide, especially in black. I also might add that I hold the RX as maybe the most attractive bike ever. I also might add that I have an abnormally high standard for aesthetic excellence. It reflects naturally stylish things, like big cats and gorgeous women.

Don't mind my opinion. You could say I expect too much. But I think my spectacles are perfectly focused and clear :)

I apologize for derailing this thread. I just couldn't resist somehow continuing the Ray Charles mention. EBR has A LOT of issues that need attention, luckily styling isn't one of them.

kneepucker
10-05-2015, 03:51 PM
That's the beauty of styling - just like art, its all subjective. I love sharp edges and clean lines, maybe it's because I've owned too many Japanese bike and Aprilias. I consider the 04-08 Mille to be one of the best looking bikes of all times, and it's pretty pointy in all the right places.
I thought the new ZX10R was absolutely hideous when it first came out, but its grown on me quite a lot, especially when seeing Sykes and Rea crush everyone on it.
To each their own!! I have love for anyone with this same crazy passion for two wheels......but just have to keep it light and fun.

Scott
10-06-2015, 10:31 AM
I apologize for derailing this thread.

:lol: With no real news, it's at least nice to have something to talk about while we wait.

I agree that EBR is, to my tastes, one of the best looking performance bikes out there, but even if my taste isn't representative of most people, I think the EBR styling does the two main things it needs to do:

1. Look reasonably good
2. Look unique

Until EBR really gets up and running, I think their main selling point will be their uniqueness. The true differences in performance of bikes at this level are very subtle, so we're really buying more for emotional reasons than anything else. If you want a bike with a long racing heritage, go with Ducati. If you like the idea of precise German engineering and the image and heritage of BMW, get the S1000RR. If you want the latest and greatest techno-gadgetry, get the R1, etc. etc. etc.

With EBR, within this class of superbikes, the selling points are: unique, rare, American superbike. And if you're buying one of the rarest superbikes on the planet, you want people to know you've got one of the rarest superbikes on the planet. Lay-people may have trouble seeing the difference between an R1 and 1190RX, but to people like us, the styling differences are glaring. We're going to recognize an 1190RX from 100 yards away across a crowded parking lot. And whether other riders like the styling or not, they'll know it's something unique and that's the most important thing EBR needs to have from their styling at this moment.

With that in mind, I'd like them to go a little farther and take some risks with the color combinations they offer in the near future. How about all white bodywork with bright blue wheels, swing-arm and frame? Something like that would really stand out.

Ace117
10-06-2015, 11:32 AM
:+1: An Arctic white RX or SX would look so bad ass! :badass:

noone1569
10-06-2015, 11:36 AM
A person at Hot Bodies is supposedly setting up a group buy for OEM fairings in different colors.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/289943317829883/permalink/538123573011855/

yamatr3
10-06-2015, 03:01 PM
I'd be in for a set in white. Can you get me an e-mail? I'm not a Facebook person. I'd appreciate the help.

noone1569
10-06-2015, 06:01 PM
I'd be in for a set in white. Can you get me an e-mail? I'm not a Facebook person. I'd appreciate the help.

When it comes to fruition, I'll be sure to keep you in the loop

Mike
10-06-2015, 06:21 PM
yamatr -

Just go to the Hot Bodies web site..!
Call or e-mail.

Mike

kneepucker
10-07-2015, 04:03 PM
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/confederate-motors-private-stock-offer/

I found this article today, and it sparked my interest. Who here would consider buying private stock in EBR if made available to raise capital? I think I'd buy a few hundred worth, something I could afford losing, but also would like to feel a little more pride in the brand.

bthibodeaux
10-07-2015, 08:57 PM
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/confederate-motors-private-stock-offer/

I found this article today, and it sparked my interest. Who here would consider buying private stock in EBR if made available to raise capital? I think I'd buy a few hundred worth, something I could afford losing, but also would like to feel a little more pride in the brand.


I would be a player for an EBR private offering with Bruce at the helm. However, keep in mind that the minimum net worth for an investor in a private offering is a bit high. Not sure what it is today, but the last time I invested in a private offering (15 years ago) the minimum net worth was $1 million.

Plotter
10-08-2015, 08:07 AM
I would be a player for an EBR private offering with Bruce at the helm. However, keep in mind that the minimum net worth for an investor in a private offering is a bit high. Not sure what it is today, but the last time I invested in a private offering (15 years ago) the minimum net worth was $1 million.

"Before you start emptying out your wallet though, the offering is made under Rule 506 of Regulation D (http://www.sec.gov/answers/rule506.htm), which means there are several restrictions on the purchase, including the fact that you will have to be an accredited investor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor#United_States) – i.e. a financial institution or a person of wealth"

This is what bthibodeaux is talking about. I believe the only way you could buy stock in a company, without being a person of wealth, is for it to become a publicly traded company... I'm not a huge investor, so please don't just start the flame show if I'm wrong.

Scott
10-08-2015, 09:49 AM
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/confederate-motors-private-stock-offer/

I found this article today, and it sparked my interest. Who here would consider buying private stock in EBR if made available to raise capital? I think I'd buy a few hundred worth, something I could afford losing, but also would like to feel a little more pride in the brand.


I would be a player for an EBR private offering with Bruce at the helm. However, keep in mind that the minimum net worth for an investor in a private offering is a bit high. Not sure what it is today, but the last time I invested in a private offering (15 years ago) the minimum net worth was $1 million.


"Before you start emptying out your wallet though, the offering is made under Rule 506 of Regulation D (http://www.sec.gov/answers/rule506.htm), which means there are several restrictions on the purchase, including the fact that you will have to be an accredited investor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor#United_States) – i.e. a financial institution or a person of wealth"

This is what bthibodeaux is talking about. I believe the only way you could buy stock in a company, without being a person of wealth, is for it to become a publicly traded company... I'm not a huge investor, so please don't just start the flame show if I'm wrong.

Couldn't an investment firm buy a block of the company and sell shares of that interest to individual investors? I guess that would be a way of skirting the law which would probably mean it would be prevented.

But I also think there's a concern in that, until Bruce and Erik can get something up and running, the value of the company is going to be depressed by the auction price.

I mean who, for example, would pay $20 million for 49% of a company that just sold at auction for $2.5 million? Of course the company, under the right leadership, may be worth far more than the auction price, but it's up to Bruce and Erik to prove that and make something happen. Once they're back up and running and cash is coming in the door, the perceived value may be much higher.

So it's a catch 22. They need cash to be viable but they can't get cash until they are viable. Hopefully Bruce has enough to get them back on their feet and then good things can happen from there, but bridging that gap is the tough part.

mbfj40
10-08-2015, 11:42 AM
The following post from Mr Belfer:

Rather than keep everyone guessing, here's the straight skinny:

It has been 8 weeks since the AMG acquired the assets of EBR. Although full operations are not yet underway, there has been a great deal of activity behind the scenes.

As you may or may not be aware, the Receiver entered into a settlement with HERO just prior to the court date. Although in the long run this is a good thing, in the short run it has caused some delays. At the 11th hour, the HERO settlement excluded some assets that were previously included in the bid, and then the company's assets were relocated between buildings in a less-than-organized fashion, making a proper inventory assessment more complex, and postponing the financing package while it was being sorted out. This literally forced us to re-approve the entire finance picture, re-doing in 8 weeks what had taken 4 months to complete. Essentially, we are still awaiting the final closing, and working with the receiver to get it done. No one is more eager to get going than we are, but there is only one way, the right way, to do so, so that is what is under way. While we are busy finishing up with HERO, the following have also been accomplished:

-Incorporated in Wisconsin (Docs filed, tax ID, employer ID, etc.
-Set up local bank accounts
-Set up employee files
-Set up payroll account
-Ordered payroll checks
-Set up insurance
-Restart the website
-Fix the phones
-Established shipping accounts with freight carriers
-Re-validated the inventory
-Re-approved the finance package
-Set up revised preliminary operating budgets based on actual inventories
-Refreshed all financial due diligence.

Throughout this period, the core team at EBR is at work and getting paid by AMG. Now that there is an incorporated business in Wisconsin with which to begin doing business, next up are:

-Employee re-hiring and placement
-Dealer contact and management
-Vendor contact and management
-Customer contact and management
-Race team contact and management
-Floor plan contact and management
-Social media/Forum/Web management and updates
-Warranty related issues
-Parts, accessories and merchandise availability and fulfillment
-Open order assessment and fulfillment
-Restart of production line
-New product development

Rest assured that EBR has my undivided attention. We know what the dealers want. We know what the owners want. We know what the market wants. We are busting our humps to make sure we can give it to you.

Never said it would be easy...never said it would be pretty...but it's getting done.

Thanks for your patience.

Bruce

mbfj40
10-08-2015, 11:43 AM
Mr Belfer's post was from BadWeb....

Scott
10-08-2015, 12:12 PM
The following post from Mr Belfer:

Rather than keep everyone guessing, here's the straight skinny:

It has been 8 weeks since the AMG acquired the assets of EBR. Although full operations are not yet underway, there has been a great deal of activity behind the scenes.

As you may or may not be aware, the Receiver entered into a settlement with HERO just prior to the court date. Although in the long run this is a good thing, in the short run it has caused some delays. At the 11th hour, the HERO settlement excluded some assets that were previously included in the bid, and then the company's assets were relocated between buildings in a less-than-organized fashion, making a proper inventory assessment more complex, and postponing the financing package while it was being sorted out. This literally forced us to re-approve the entire finance picture, re-doing in 8 weeks what had taken 4 months to complete. Essentially, we are still awaiting the final closing, and working with the receiver to get it done. No one is more eager to get going than we are, but there is only one way, the right way, to do so, so that is what is under way. While we are busy finishing up with HERO, the following have also been accomplished:

-Incorporated in Wisconsin (Docs filed, tax ID, employer ID, etc.
-Set up local bank accounts
-Set up employee files
-Set up payroll account
-Ordered payroll checks
-Set up insurance
-Restart the website
-Fix the phones
-Established shipping accounts with freight carriers
-Re-validated the inventory
-Re-approved the finance package
-Set up revised preliminary operating budgets based on actual inventories
-Refreshed all financial due diligence.

Throughout this period, the core team at EBR is at work and getting paid by AMG. Now that there is an incorporated business in Wisconsin with which to begin doing business, next up are:

-Employee re-hiring and placement
-Dealer contact and management
-Vendor contact and management
-Customer contact and management
-Race team contact and management
-Floor plan contact and management
-Social media/Forum/Web management and updates
-Warranty related issues
-Parts, accessories and merchandise availability and fulfillment
-Open order assessment and fulfillment
-Restart of production line
-New product development

Rest assured that EBR has my undivided attention. We know what the dealers want. We know what the owners want. We know what the market wants. We are busting our humps to make sure we can give it to you.

Never said it would be easy...never said it would be pretty...but it's getting done.

Thanks for your patience.

Bruce

:thumb: Thanks!

It would seem common sense that those things were happening, but with no real information, it's hard to avoid thinking maybe they're just sitting around crying in their beer or something. :lol:

Hughlysses
10-08-2015, 04:00 PM
^ I think the big thing he mentions above that hadn't occurred to most of us is the last-minute purchase of the "consulting assets" by Hero threw a wrench in the works. Like he says, I'm sure it was a good thing in the long run, but it complicated and slowed things down a lot.

Scott
10-08-2015, 07:58 PM
^ I think the big thing he mentions above that hadn't occurred to most of us is the last-minute purchase of the "consulting assets" by Hero threw a wrench in the works. Like he says, I'm sure it was a good thing in the long run, but it complicated and slowed things down a lot.

Well if not for some comments indicating information last week, I probably wouldn't have realistically expected to hear anything by now anyway. It does seem like there are a lot of pieces that need to be put back together.

Spyder171
10-09-2015, 08:49 AM
Warranties... I hope he offers to help those who couldn't get them when it went under!

Hughlysses
10-23-2015, 07:15 AM
Link posted on Facebook yesterday:

http://www.ebreurope.com/

"Coming soon"

:thumb:

Scott
10-23-2015, 07:34 AM
:thumb:

Cool! I'm just patiently waiting for news. Hopefully we'll see something detailed soon, but little things like this are nice to feel things are progressing.

If I were EBR, I think I would frankly be spending more time in Europe, Australia and Asia than the United States. It seems they have a better recognition and understanding of the unique characteristics of the EBR than people in the US. But what do you expect from a country for which Harley Davidson is the standard? :wink:

noone1569
10-23-2015, 10:22 AM
And we're just sitting here in America like . . :slap:

Carbonbolt
10-23-2015, 11:43 AM
And we're just sitting here in America like . . :slap:

Not all ...:nana:

Scott
10-23-2015, 01:25 PM
:lol:

Carbonbolt
10-23-2015, 06:39 PM
But what do you expect from a country for which Harley Davidson is the standard? :wink:

Here in germany? We make jokes about that "standard"!:lol:
I only say: "Objects in Mirror are behind you!" we call that "monkeyapproved"

We love Erik's bike's, his visionary technology and the polarising design.
Most people wish anXB14 or even 16!:backhand:
If the SX would have an mapping with more tourque and less peakpower, not like actual same character as RX,
they could sell these bikes in germany.

This is why we love him:
653
This Foto was shot in Germany/Oschersleben while the "Pegasus Race Experience" october2010!
a picture says more than thosand words!

Classax
10-23-2015, 10:59 PM
:thumb:
If I were EBR, I think I would frankly be spending more time in Europe, Australia and Asia than the United States. It seems they have a better recognition and understanding of the unique characteristics of the EBR than people in the US. But what do you expect from a country for which Harley Davidson is the standard? :wink:

The unfortunate reality is Buells/EBR are more well regarded across the pond than here in the states. Despite the fact that a 245lbs novice rider can easily run slow A group lap times on street tires, and stock gearing is always an amazement at the track. Everyone thinks they're beautiful most would rather run a Duc or BMW for the money. This weekend I had an instructor comment that I looked very casual for my pace where as most guys who are running that quick seem to be working much harder and busier on the bike. He happen to be ridding a gear down RSV4, and is 6'2. I invited him to throw a leg over the EBR. He immediately realized why I seemed so comfortable. Although the RX is physically as compact as the RSV4, the rider triangle is far more roomy. The bike turns quicker and revs just as fast but makes its power much sooner. He liked it, but not enough to buy one with the company in flux.

oddball
10-23-2015, 11:05 PM
Carbonbolt,
An XB14? Fellow dreamers of a street legal and durable XBRR engine? Maybe someone could talk S&S into producing it? Think of all the XB's around the world that could be upgraded with a new engine. Maybe 120 horsepower and 100 foot pounds torque? That should be safely reachable with that design.

DkRider
10-24-2015, 12:36 AM
Im pretty sure I remember Jens krüper and Hillbilly-Motors had a kit for the XB to make it 1600cc.

Carbonbolt
10-24-2015, 04:12 AM
I only tried to say that some people wish the XB back, with more tourque maybe. But this is past and gone.
The SX could be the model for the masses, but it has the wrong mapping/characteristic.
I know all the customised XBengines from germany. The best is the 1170! :hail:
We dont want to tell Erik what to do, but the Typhon and the Manticor are made to show what is possible and wanted.


If anybody doesnt know these bikes, i can send good pics.

Slickit
10-24-2015, 05:53 AM
Well I for one believe that the best bike made by Erik so far would have to be the 1190RX. He is indeed trying to make racing motorcycles hence the RX and all its wondrous glory. Some people say focus somewhere other than the U.S. but of course they are made in the U.S. so why wouldn't the focus be at home. Besides I think that is probably what the SX was for, since most people who ride these bike across the pond so to speak are riding them with not much room to stretch those legs and open up. Fortunately there is such room in the U.S., especially at the track and down the highway headed home. I am just thankful for Erik continuing to create and improve. There is still more room to grow into the current engine and plenty of room for tweaks, hopefully we get to see where the road leads in the future.

Sparky
10-24-2015, 06:01 PM
Classax, how far from stock is your RX and do you drive it on the streets in race trim?
I'm asking because I ride streets & canyons on a SX with Race ECM & shorty tips and except for occasional boneheaded stalling in 1st taking off from stops, it's just bitchin'! And no, I don't race.

Classax
10-27-2015, 02:02 PM
Classax, how far from stock is your RX and do you drive it on the streets in race trim?
I'm asking because I ride streets & canyons on a SX with Race ECM & shorty tips and except for occasional boneheaded stalling in 1st taking off from stops, it's just bitchin'! And no, I don't race.


Sparky she is bone stock with exception of Race ECU, exhasut tips, Noid Delete, rear pegs deleted, and GP shift with quickshifter. Yes she rides the track, pull the tape install the plate and she's on the streets the very same day!

As for stalling from stops, yes the bike is geared high but may offer two tips.
1. GIVE HER SOME GAS man!
2. Really practice being smooth on the clutch, I can leave a stop in good order with just the clutch and no throttle at all. She has way more stomp than one would think.

I don't race either, I'm too big (heavy 245lbs without gear) to compete against the little guys on the S1KRRs. The power to weight ratio starts to really add up when its basically like I'm riding two up compared to most guys on top of them having 20-30 more HP. They give me fits on track days as despite getting on the gas early and carrying more corner speed it always turns into a drag race to the next corner where they are able to just edge me out or pull dead even most of the time. Since my usual org doesn't allow inside passing on entry in my level, even though I can usually beat them on the brakes I wind up conceding the turn to avoid complaints and a black flag. So I wind braking even harder to stay behind them on entry only to go by them on exit and have them come back along side down the straits. I normally can only get by for good in sections where they can't exploit their power advantage. The one org that does let us pass on the inside is a blast because I will carry more speed into the corner and brake later harder get by them on entry while braking to apex and then gap them on exit enough to where they can't make it back on the straights.

GJB
10-30-2015, 07:56 PM
Bruce, How about a little status for your faithful.... My bike is basically useless without a dash and I need to make preparations for next race season. Without some daylight in sight for EBR I am first in line for a new ZX-10

Speedy13
10-31-2015, 07:10 PM
A little info would be nice to hear. Specifically for those of us in the dealer network. Being in the dark sucks. Plus I also need a dash for my racebike

Hughlysses
11-01-2015, 06:05 AM
Bruce posted an update on Badweb about 3 and a half weeks ago, which was cross-posted here:

http://ebrforum.com/showthread.php?367-When-will-EBR-be-fully-operational-Questions-to-the-Owner&p=4764&viewfull=1#post4764

From the sound of that, I'd think we'll be getting a major announcement before too much longer.

Hughlysses
11-05-2015, 01:39 PM
Several posts on Badweb yesterday indicate there are some developments at "new" EBR and that at least some of the dealers have been contacted. That sounds like a very positive development.

Need4speed
11-15-2015, 07:57 PM
Many posts on badweatherbikers about the sale of EBR falling through because of HERO and new auction on Dec 10th.

Sparky
11-16-2015, 01:24 PM
Article in Milwaukee's online Journel Sentinel confirms the latest setback to BB to get EBR operational. But this should be resolved on Dec 10th.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/erik-buell-racing-motorcycle-company-deal-hits-a-roadblock-b99616754z1-350596331.html

Scott
11-19-2015, 06:45 AM
Am I the only one reading all these comments on the 156 and how everybody was hoping for a real sport-bike and wondering where all these people were a year ago?

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/victory/eicma-2015-victory-unveils-project-156-based-production-engine-in-concept-bike.html

It seems like people want an American Sportbike. I just think EBR wasn't around long enough for them to realize it existed.

Hughlysses
11-19-2015, 07:21 AM
I just think EBR wasn't around long enough for them to realize it existed.

They weren't around long enough and their promotion seemed almost non-existent. I would imagine that is one thing Bruce will make a concerted effort to rectify early on if he is successful next month.

oldtimerookie
11-19-2015, 12:57 PM
I for one had never heard of EBR until one day I was cruising cycle trader and saw the 1190rx for sale. Google it and the rest is history.

Hughlysses
11-19-2015, 08:41 PM
Bruce posted some more info on Badweb tonight, including a link to this article:

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/erik-buell-racing-manufacturer/the-wild-the-innocent-and-the-ebr-shuffle.html

Scott
11-19-2015, 09:42 PM
Bruce posted some more info on Badweb tonight, including a link to this article:

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/erik-buell-racing-manufacturer/the-wild-the-innocent-and-the-ebr-shuffle.html


:thumb:

zac4mac
11-20-2015, 12:21 AM
tonight is the best Buell day in a few months.

Scott
11-20-2015, 09:06 AM
tonight is the best Buell day in a few months.

I love Bruce's attitude. I just want to see the factory up and running again, people back at work, dealers selling bikes etc. It seems like the story of Buell/EBR has always been one "Here's the last lap! And . . . crash."

Plotter
11-20-2015, 01:28 PM
It's great to see some news trickling back in. Can't wait to see what happens at the Auction...

roadking1
12-08-2015, 05:33 PM
Has anybody heard anything about the auction?

TerryS1980
12-09-2015, 08:05 AM
It is tomorrow...

Scott
12-09-2015, 07:54 PM
Hoping for good news tomorrow.

Hughlysses
12-10-2015, 08:06 AM
~2 hours to go...

Hughlysses
12-10-2015, 12:22 PM
Well, the auction started at 10 AM CST. I'm betting it's over by now.

Sure wish somebody would let us know the outcome...:twitch:

Scott
12-10-2015, 02:24 PM
Well, the auction started at 10 AM CST. I'm betting it's over by now.

Sure wish somebody would let us know the outcome...:twitch:


Oh heck. I was just checking in here to see if you had the answers.

d_adams
12-10-2015, 03:14 PM
Not good, Bruce did NOT win.

Scott
12-10-2015, 03:30 PM
Not good, Bruce did NOT win.

That's a bummer for Bruce, but doesn't that mean somebody with more money who wanted it even more than Bruce got it? I'm intrigued and excited to find out who it was now.

Hughlysses
12-10-2015, 04:04 PM
So... Harley? Polaris? Somebody else we never heard of before the auction? Place your bets now! :lol:

Scott
12-10-2015, 04:31 PM
So... Harley? Polaris? Somebody else we never heard of before the auction? Place your bets now! :lol:

My money would be on somebody we never heard of before, but there could literally be thousands of potential interested parties. BRP? Ford? John Ulrich? Hal's HD? Jay Leno? S & S? Elon Musk? Nickey Hayden? Queensryche?

Most likely, as with Bruce, it will be somebody who makes us say: "Who?" and sends us running off to Google to see if we can piece anything together.

Hughlysses
12-10-2015, 07:25 PM
Looks like we don't find out who won the auction until Monday:

http://m.jsonline.com/business/new-buyer-coming-for-eric-buell-racing-b99632251z1-361495891.html

d_adams
12-10-2015, 07:42 PM
Current rumor is a liquidator, possibly backed by Polaris. Not happy about it if it's true.

Scott
12-10-2015, 08:06 PM
Current rumor is a liquidator, possibly backed by Polaris. Not happy about it if it's true.

Bruce said: "Despite our best efforts, we lost the auction, but EBR remains intact." And I'd be willing to bet the value of assets to a liquidator would be much lower than the value to someone who wants to continue to make motorcycles. So unless there's any credible source to that rumor, I doubt it was a liquidator.

Could it be an agent hired by Polaris? That's possible, but if so, I suspect they want to add sport-motorcycles to their line-up - not just buy it to throw it away.

Betterbuell
12-10-2015, 08:29 PM
I still cant comprehend the expected amount for a company + assets etc to be buyable for such a small amount. Are there liabilities attatched as well. You would think there would be companies, even individuals could/would buy this with their spare change ?

yzf29
12-10-2015, 08:59 PM
I'll be honest- my opinion from the bits I've heard here and there- I am glad the NJ gentleman is not acquiring EBR

Always seemed a bit shady, and that may not be fair, but....

Would rather have a Polaris or similar taking charge

Scott
12-10-2015, 09:01 PM
I still cant comprehend the expected amount for a company + assets etc to be buyable for such a small amount. Are there liabilities attatched as well. You would think there would be companies, even individuals could/would buy this with their spare change ?

I think the big barrier is the capital required to get the thing off the ground and the risk to that capital. For a company like this, somebody needs to be able to put enough money into it that they can run for 5 years while loosing money and they need to be able to ensure customers they will be around 5 years from now.

Basically, that means someone is going to need to be willing to put up $50 million to $100 million to keep things going until there are enough sales and revenue to cover costs. And there's probably at least a 50% chance that after five years, the company still won't be profitable and all of that cash will be as good as incinerated.

heagachongoose
12-10-2015, 09:02 PM
Yes. 20.4 million in liabilities. The company was worth 20.8 million at the time of the initial shutdown. I am not sure what has been settled or changed between those numbers, but judging by the lack of buyer interest and the alleged paying price, the relationship between those numbers have not changed much..

Hughlysses
12-10-2015, 10:34 PM
I still cant comprehend the expected amount for a company + assets etc to be buyable for such a small amount. Are there liabilities attatched as well. You would think there would be companies, even individuals could/would buy this with their spare change ?

From what's been posted here and on Badweb, there are no liabilities attached. Any liabilities are settled out of the proceeds of the sale by the Receiver.

I'm pretty sure the buyer cannot be a liquidator. This was a "going concern" auction, which means the company was to be sold intact if possible as a viable business. I think if there had been no "reasonable" bids, the Receiver could then have elected to sell it piece by piece and the liquidators could have jumped in.

Scott
12-11-2015, 12:00 PM
I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the buyer:

1. Loves and understands sport motorcycles.
2. Is a smart business-person/organization.
3. Has the resources necessary to get this off the ground.
4. Understands and appreciates the heritage and history of Erik Buell motorcycles and the customers who have bought them in the past and intends to continue the spirit of that heritage.

With the right combination of those things, the new entity could be flying high in the coming years and in better shape then they've ever been.

Now I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping we get lucky.

kneepucker
12-11-2015, 07:52 PM
749
Here's my hunch..... not trying to start rumors, just spitballing until Monday arrives and we know more. This is a guy who knows what it takes to build a bike from scratch/parts catalogs.

kneepucker
12-12-2015, 09:29 AM
750
OK, here's my last uneducated guess. Maybe the Magpul guys couldn't resist..... that would be awesome, as they just moved their HQ to my hometown in Austin, TX.
Their short run of machined parts are drool inducing, (the have a one-piece billet battery box that incorporates both footpegs as well) I begged them to sell me some of them, but no response. They know these bikes better than most, maybe, just maybe......

Scott
12-12-2015, 10:29 AM
750
OK, here's my last uneducated guess. Maybe the Magpul guys couldn't resist..... that would be awesome, as they just moved their HQ to my hometown in Austin, TX.
Their short run of machined parts are drool inducing, (the have a one-piece billet battery box that incorporates both footpegs as well) I begged them to sell me some of them, but no response. They know these bikes better than most, maybe, just maybe......

That's a very intersting one I hadn't thought of. But it's most likely someone we'd never guess.

Scott
12-12-2015, 10:35 AM
One thing I think we should always remember - particularly if the new owner brings the brand back to where it should be - is that if a guy named Bruce Belfer hadn't stepped up in August 2015 and outbid the liquidators, EBR would have been sold off for scrap.

When we look back on the history of this whole, crazy thing, he may be the one, single person (other than Erik himself) responsible for keeping EBR alive when it was closer to death than it had ever been.

Scott
12-12-2015, 10:57 AM
One thing with Magpul is they're probably raking in more cash than they can handle right now, but their core business is susceptible to changes in political winds. It would make sense for them to use some of that cash to diversify into a product-line that would be less volatile and less subject to emotions and political swings.

Plus their experience with precision engineering and even Buell/EBR motorcycles would make them a perfect fit.

There are a lot of companies for whom it would make a lot of sense to buy EBR. It will be interesting to see (in hopefully about 48 hours from now) who it really was.

Bruce's comment: "He will be offering his own press release shortly" would seem to imply an individual. But an organization may have sent an individual to represent them (I would expect Polaris, Magpul or similar would want to keep their identity secret until the details were finalized, and likely would have sent a lawyer to represent them.) It's possible that even those very close to this don't know the true identity of the bidder yet.

kneepucker
12-12-2015, 12:12 PM
OK, I said I was done guessing, but I really want to be the one who "called it" :slap:

My only other speculative inkling is Jesse James - hear me out before you dismiss it. I've been told by a former WCC employee that Jesse and Erik are buds, and everything Jesse touches is successful and VERY expensive - he's also become extremely patriotic as of late, and I could see him handling small scale sportbike production, while adding a premium value by putting his name with the brand.
Either way, I'm hoping that somehow EBR gets moved to Texas, the new home of US MotoGP racing.

oddball
12-12-2015, 01:15 PM
If your going to speculate a famous builder for an owner I'd rather see Roland Sands than Jesse. Nothing against Jesse, I just think Roland has a better understanding of sport bikes.

Want a nightmare? OCC... lol

Hughlysses
12-12-2015, 02:09 PM
Cross-posted from Facebook and Badweb:


Ok guys, I have some info.

A liquidator, Liquid Assets (Bill Melvin - liquidator) was the buyer at $1.6m - they are keeping it quiet waiting for the Judge to approve the sale this Monday in court - they don't want to create opposition to the sale by having employees show up to oppose the liquidation of EBR.

Anyone & everyone can speak to the Judge in court - it is a public hearing - if 10 to 20 employees would show up and tell the Judge how this effects them personally it would make a difference to buy more time - especially since there are other buyers interested in keeping the company intact rather than breaking it up - there is no reason why EBR had to be taken to auction so quickly.

if the employees can show up and tell the Judge the impact of liquidation on them personally - then ask the Judge for more time to find a buyer that would keep EBR intact ... it would have a significant impact -- especially since the creditors that are owed money are NOT forcing a quick sale of EBR (since they are take a BIG loss on what they are owed).

So we can help this. There are people trying to work out a deal to keep it together, just need more time.

If this is true, this story just gets more and more convoluted, doesn't it? Apparently this is the same company Harley used to sell off Buell's assets after they were closed. I guess it's possible the court will disapprove the outcome of the auction on Monday.

Hughlysses
12-12-2015, 02:51 PM
Thinking about the story above, it doesn't make sense. Bruce posted this the afternoon of the auction:


Despite our best efforts, we lost the auction, but EBR remains intact. Out of respect for the buyer, this is all I will say on the subject, as I am advised he will be issuing his own press release shortly.

(emphasis added)

It seems if a liquidator had bought it with the intention of selling things off, Bruce wouldn't have had much respect for them or felt any need not to say who it was.

Scott
12-12-2015, 04:18 PM
None of this makes sense. That explanation seems detailed and specific, so I have to give it some credibility, but it doesn't fit Bruce's comments or common sense.

And if it is a liquidator, couldn't Bruce buy some of the key assets he needs from the liquidator? Who gets the actual designs/patents part-specific tooling etc.? They're worthless to anybody who doesn't want to make motorcycles.

There has to be more to the story, but it certainly sounds grim.

Scott
12-12-2015, 06:45 PM
I see that Bruce has commented on the Facebook post and he seems to stand by his original comments - though he doesn't offer any additional clarification. Somebody had mentioned Polaris in connection with the liquidator yesterday.

Is the following scenario possible: Polaris contracted with this liquidator. Polaris will take the key components and rebrand the bikes as Victories but build them in their own factories (and the liquidator will scrap and get any value they can for whatever Polaris doesn't want). If that is what's going on, I'd expect them to keep Erik in at least some symbolic role, but most employees will likely be out in the cold (though Polaris might hire and relocate a few).

... Or Polaris could just mothball it and figure the elimination of a competitor was worth the nominal investment.

Bruce also mentioned a press release was forthcoming. Would a liquidator feel the need for a press release?

I believe there is truth in both Bruce's comments and these new revelations, but if they're both true, the situation must be more complex than either bit, on its own, would indicate.

Hughlysses
12-13-2015, 08:10 AM
So, Court Canfield, long-time Buell insider and Badweb resident, called "BS" on the story on Badweb last night. Guess we have to wait until tomorrow to get the real story.

Edit- to be more precise, Court stated "There's not a shred of information I'd consider accurate on this page" referring to information on a page which included the story about the outcome of the auction.

Scott
12-13-2015, 08:42 AM
So, Court Canfield, long-time Buell insider and Badweb resident, called "BS" on the story on Badweb last night. Guess we have to wait until tomorrow to get the real story.

I think the buyer and price paid are accurate (and based on publicly available information). I think the inaccuracy comes with the assumptions people are making regarding the entire company being scrapped based on no information other than the buyer and price. At the very least, I would expect someone to end up with the intellectual property, and then it's a matter of whoever that is getting the investment needed to actually make bikes.

When Harley shut Buell down, they owned the intellectual property and they didn't want anybody using it. Intellectual property has no value as scrap, and, at the very least, Erik, Bruce or someone else would likely buy that IP for a nominal fee.

Hughlysses
12-13-2015, 08:51 AM
Scott- I think you're right. A few minutes ago, BB himself confirmed that the story about who won the auction is accurate.

snacktoast
12-13-2015, 09:55 AM
With all due respect to Mr. Canfield, he has about as much "insider" status as the parking lot does at this point.

Doosh
12-13-2015, 09:58 AM
with all due respect to mr. Canfield, he has about as much "insider" status as the parking lot does at this point.

lol!!!

ljm
12-13-2015, 12:36 PM
If I were to hang my hat on what Court says, I would have hung myself long ago. That being said, it is a long shot.

heagachongoose
12-13-2015, 09:32 PM
I'm afraid to say, I think Hero walked out with most of the intellectual property. Hence explaining the new selling price. Basically just a bunch of scrap parts, a brand name, and a dream.

I hope I'm wrong. We'll see soon.

ljm
12-14-2015, 01:27 AM
I guess we will know more tomorrow, but looking at the Lots up for auction, one of them is the EBR intellectual property. Just guessing that is the designs for the 1190 series. The Hero lot is excluded this time. But from the documents, it is not possible to tell what what is in those lots. I just got the court paperwork that a bunch of you did.

Scott
12-14-2015, 09:02 AM
I'm afraid to say, I think Hero walked out with most of the intellectual property. Hence explaining the new selling price. Basically just a bunch of scrap parts, a brand name, and a dream.

I hope I'm wrong. We'll see soon.



I'm wondering if part of it is that Bruce learned some things over the past few months that have shifted his perspective and valuation of certain assets. For example, if many of the listed assets are things that aren't really what he would need to make motorcycles, he may now know, more fully than he did in August, that those weren't worth bidding on.

The bottom line is that if somebody wants to make motorcycles and has the money to actually do it, nothing is over. They can always buy the specific rights and equipment that are uniquely related to making 1190RS and RX's and leave the things they don't really need.

For example, in Bruce's case, he may have found that a lot of the lathes and metal working equipment etc. were things he already owned. If he wanted to revive the business in Wisconsin, he might need all those things, but it might be much more efficient and cost effective to make bikes in NJ. In that case, the office furniture and other equipment are just junk to him that he would have to dispose of one way or another. Can the parts be assembled into complete motorcycles? That's something we don't really know and could be a big variable. Bruce may have learned that he will need to create and certify a new, revised bike and he may not be able to use those parts.

It's within the realm of possibility at this point that Bruce could say: "I'll give you $600,000 for the IP and that jig over there and that fixture over there and these other 20 things I need to make bikes in NJ, and you can keep the rest."

It's also possible that Bruce or someone else has already made that deal with the liquidator.

But it also seems that there aren't a lot of people out there who have the money and are really serious about continuing to make motorcycles or this likely would have gone for more than $1.6 million.

Right now, at this moment, being completely blind with no real information, here's the absolute worst-case scenario I can imagine: All the physical inventory is sold off for scrap and spare parts and Erik buys the designs, computer files, patents etc. for some small fee (since it seems nobody wants to make motorcycles, those specific things have very little value) and says: "If anybody with some cash ever wants to make motorcycles, give me a call."

But my gut tells me something a little better than that worst-case scenario is already happening and somebody is working with the liquidator (perhaps somebody who actually hired the liquidator to do the bidding - has anybody considered the idea that, while Erik may have been prohibited from bidding, there was likely no prohibition against him talking to a liquidator prior to the auction and making some commitments to buy certain things if they were the winning bidder?)

But while my gut tells me something may be going on, it also tells me that it's likely to be many years before we ever see new motorcycles from anyone and it's still just as likely as not that nobody will ever make that leap.

Hughlysses
12-14-2015, 09:28 AM
Scott- I think you're on the right track. While everybody seemed to agree it was a good thing long-term that Hero came in and agreed to buy "their stuff", I can imagine identifying "their stuff" turned into a contentious process. On top of that, the Receiver and/or court wouldn't have had much reason to deny Hero anything they were willing to pay for. So the IP for the 1190 models may have been off-limits, but Hero may have absconded with IP for upcoming models that EBR intended to produce, even if there was little or no Hero application. That would drastically decrease the value of what was bid on last Thursday.

Mr. Canfield (again, for what it's worth) keeps saying the ~350 SX's and RX's at the factory cannot be titled as the manufacturer that built them no longer exists. I don't know if that's true or not (it seems kind of crazy that a motorcycle would be legal for sale on one day and not legal for sale the next- it's the same motorcycle), but if so, that might be a big part of the liquidation process. These bikes might be of little value to the new owner of EBR if they can't be sold as street bikes. Could they be sold as track-only bikes? Will they have to be rendered inoperable somehow? Will they have to be scrapped? I really hope not.

Oh well, the waiting game starts again. Even if the court approves the auction outcome today, I can see it being months before there's a clear outcome to this, and there's always the possibility they won't approve the outcome. Whatever happens, like Scott said, it could be years before we see another Buell-designed bike roll out.

Scott
12-14-2015, 10:04 AM
Mr. Canfield (again, for what it's worth) keeps saying the ~350 SX's and RX's at the factory cannot be titled as the manufacturer that built them no longer exists.

That right there could be the big difference between the August and December selling prices. If, in August, Bruce thought: "Hey, even if I only get $5000 per bike, that's $1,750,000 I'll get for those bikes." and now he knows better, that would explain his unwillingness to go as high as he did before.

But if that is the case, he still has a lot of information and he still showed up to bid with the intention of making motorcycles. If nobody else is interested in making motorcycles, I can't imagine why he can't get what he needs from the liquidator for a reasonable price.

So that just leaves me thinking somebody's going to make a go at this. If Bruce (as he seems to be) is telegraphing that it won't be him, that seems to point to somebody else. And then the question becomes: "Who?"

buell-fan
12-14-2015, 10:47 AM
FWIW, in many states there are bikes being titled every day by people with only an MSO for the motor in an aftermarket frame. It is a common practice with "choppers". The state only requires an inspection. For whatever reason, the State wanted to inspect the VIN on my bike before the title was issued; boughten months after the initial EBR receivership court filing and I was issued a title after. Though there may be issues in States that require smog testing before tilting new bikes, I don't see why there would be an issue ttitling any EBR there because these bikes are so smog-law friendly they will pass the tests.

Hughlysses
12-14-2015, 12:24 PM
This comes from Facebook posts of several people who were listening in on the court hearing by phone:

The hearing is over and the sale was not approved. The hearing will be continued on January 14, 2016. Apparently the judge was not happy that the winning bidder was a liquidator. The liquidator claimed to be in a better position to re-sell the assets as a going concern but it seems they planned to sell off the manufacturing machinery separately. It sounds like this delay will give Bruce a second chance. Hopefully more info will come out to clarify the details of the hearing.

Fingers crossed.

Plotter
12-14-2015, 12:47 PM
A new interested buyer, Demetri Melekos, is the person that is trying to obtain the company now. He appears to have a plan to get the company producing and selling motorcycles, with an emphasis for overseas sales...

Scott
12-14-2015, 01:28 PM
So it seems that it is a pretty clear case of Bruce vs. liquidator and while the liquidator seems to be trying to BS and claim they might try to sell the company as a going concern, they have no plans in making bikes and, in all likelihood, they will simply scrap everything if they get the chance. Does that sound right? I'm now starting to think Bruce's initial, seemingly optimistic comments were because he didn't really understand who they were, but now he and we and the court understand they just want to cut it up and sell off the pieces.

Does that fit what other people are reading/understanding?

Is there a possibility Demetri could work with Bruce? Is there a crowd-funding effort starting yet, and if so, where can we donate?

Plotter
12-14-2015, 01:32 PM
So it seems that it is a pretty clear case of Bruce vs. liquidator and while the liquidator seems to be trying to BS and claim they might try to sell the company as a going concern, they have no plans in making bikes and, in all likelihood, they will simply scrap everything if they get the chance. Does that sound right? I'm now starting to think Bruce's initial, seemingly optimistic comments were because he didn't really understand who they were, but now he and we and the court understand they just want to cut it up and sell off the pieces.

Does that fit what other people are reading/understanding?

Is there a possibility Demetri could work with Bruce? Is there a crowd-funding effort starting yet, and if so, where can we donate?

Demetri said he tried to work with Bruce on a group ownership, but he really wanted a solo ownership, I guess... Maybe he would be more open to this now...

Without more info from Bruce and Demetri, I would consider them two separate and viable options...

zviadi
12-15-2015, 02:55 AM
The result - who bought the EBR? Demetri Melekos?

Hughlysses
12-15-2015, 04:43 AM
The result - who bought the EBR? Demetri Melekos?

Nobody bought it yet. The judge did not approve the results of the original auction (sale to the liquidator). The court hearing will be continued on January 14, and the judge will decide what happens at that time. I would not be surprised if the sale is delayed even further after that.

zviadi
12-15-2015, 04:49 AM
It is very strange...

Hughlysses
12-15-2015, 07:24 AM
It is very strange...

Welcome to the US legal system.

If no one had objected at yesterday's hearing, I believe the judge would have approved the outcome of the auction and the winner, Liquid Assets, would now own the remains of EBR. Apparently Bruce Belfer and Demetri Melekos both raised objections, stating that they had plans to re-start motorcycle production. I believe the judge has to consider the merits of selling EBR for slightly more money to the liquidator, versus the benefit of resuming motorcycle production, which would bring jobs back to the area, generate additional tax revenue for the state of Wisconsin, etc.

The delay until January 14 gives both sides (Liquid Assets vs. Bruce and/or Demetri) time to prepare their arguments. The judge may still approve the original sale, because he may be skeptical of the long-term ability of Bruce or Demetri to restart motorcycle production, or he may decide that it is more important to pay the creditors as much as possible. I suppose he could order ANOTHER auction on January 14 since the delay may give each party more time to raise cash.

Hughlysses
12-15-2015, 07:29 AM
Article on yesterday's hearing: http://www.jsonline.com/business/judge-declines-to-approve-sale-of-motorcycle-companys-assets-b99634187z1-362120151.html

d_adams
12-15-2015, 08:09 AM
This gives me more time to win big in the lottery and buy it all and restart it myself.

Scott
12-15-2015, 08:29 AM
Article on yesterday's hearing: http://www.jsonline.com/business/judge-declines-to-approve-sale-of-motorcycle-companys-assets-b99634187z1-362120151.html

:thumb:

That provides a clearer picture. Based on everything we've seen and heard, I get the sense the liquidator might have misrepresented their intentions and Bruce may have stepped back and let them have it with the idea that they were going to keep the company going (as he seemed to indicate in his initial comments). If Bruce trusted them, he might not have gone as far as he could have.

Hopefully now that there's a clearer picture either Bruce or Demetri . . . or maybe a joint effort can get enough to prevent it from being scrapped. The liquidator must have a ceiling that they won't be willing to go above, and hopefully they're close now.

I don't know how it will work from here. The judge didn't call for a new auction, so it seems like if Demetri or Bruce could show up in January ready to match the liquidator's offer, they should be able to get it since an equal bid from someone who wants to keep the company together should be preferable to the same bid from a liquidator. But would such an offer reopen bidding and allow the liquidator to increase their offer?

zviadi
12-15-2015, 08:46 AM
Article on yesterday's hearing: http://www.jsonline.com/business/judge-declines-to-approve-sale-of-motorcycle-companys-assets-b99634187z1-362120151.html

Thnx for info.
I wish Eric well to get out of this difficult situation.
In Russia there are many fans of his engineering talent and his personality.