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Hughlysses
06-30-2015, 11:38 AM
This was posted to EBR's Facebook page shortly after noon EDT today:

The sale of EBR assets has now been scheduled. It will be done in a bidding process on July 21st between a number of potential buyers at an event managed by the receiver. Then all bids are subject to court approval, scheduled for July 23rd. Looking forward to moving ahead soon!

Slowride
06-30-2015, 12:25 PM
I'm really wondering what "moving ahead soon" means. Still hoping for the best...

Scott
06-30-2015, 12:49 PM
Nice! In just a little over 3 weeks, we should know something.

Also posted: "To be clear, this sale is not a selling off of individual pieces, but as it states in the court documents, it is selling off in large blocks as an ongoing concern sale."

I'm willing to bet there are at least 2 entities (and maybe more) that would like to continue making motorcycles. Should be very interesting.

LineArrayNut
07-01-2015, 01:29 AM
I got a gaggle of lawyer speak notice in the mail today about the two receivership proceedings. Seems to me just from scanning them, that it's a no hope death knell.

Scott
07-01-2015, 09:33 AM
I got a gaggle of lawyer speak notice in the mail today about the two receivership proceedings. Seems to me just from scanning them, that it's a no hope death knell.


I wouldn't get too hung up on the legalese.



"Going concern is a basic underlying assumption in accounting. The assumption is that a company or other entity will be able to continue operating for a period of time that is sufficient to carry out its commitments, obligations, objectives, and so on."





That's the stated goal of the July 21 auction. We don't know if they'll achieve that or not, but the auction is happening pretty much to the day at the earliest it could occur. If there weren't entities who had expressed serious interest in buying the company as a going concern, the auction would likely be delayed while the receiver attempted to attract more parties who would be.

I interpret the date of the auction to be a VERY good sign.

Scott
07-03-2015, 07:25 AM
Posted by EBR to their facebook page 16 hours ago:



The brand name is in the lot of intangible assets and intellectual property. The assets have to be broken into segments like this by law, but it is a going concern auction and a number of bidders are coming with the intention to buy all the lots necessary to move the company forward again. The outcome is of course unknown, but it actually looks very good to us.






:thumb::pray:

Hughlysses
07-03-2015, 08:31 AM
^ That sounds very positive.

Scott
07-03-2015, 09:41 AM
^ That sounds very positive.

Yeah, I think all the legal procedures can be disconcerting and confusing, but since the announcement of the auction, I have felt very optimistic.

Once things were set in motion, they had to have an auction. It's just part of the process. Imagine the day after receivership Erik and a group of investors told the receiver they would buy the company for $1 and honor all debts. But wait a minute. Polaris might be willing to pay $2, so the receiver couldn't just hand it over to anyone without an auction.

People are reading their notices and thinking things sound dour, but we knew the day after the receivership was announced that there would have to be an auction. And we knew it couldn't happen less than 90 days after notices were sent out. The fact that it's occurring as soon as possible is a good sign and the EBR facebook comments are a VERY good sign.

Hughlysses
07-04-2015, 09:12 AM
Finally, a mention of the sale in the US moto-press, although they have a fundamental detail (1 lot only) wrong:

http://m.autoevolution.com/erik-buell-racing-assets-to-be-auctioned-in-the-21st-of-july-97474.html

Scott
07-04-2015, 01:32 PM
Finally, a mention of the sale in the US moto-press, although they have a fundamental detail (1 lot only) wrong:

http://m.autoevolution.com/erik-buell-racing-assets-to-be-auctioned-in-the-21st-of-july-97474.html

Interesting. I don't know the procedure, but maybe they offer the complete package with a certain minimum bid. If nobody offers that minimum bid, they offer the individual pieces independently?

Just speculating/guessing, but they report it as if they know, and I'd assume they must have talked to somebody involved before writing the story.

In any case, I would love to be able to watch the bidding live. If they offered a streaming version at $10 per viewer, they'd probably be able to make a few bucks to put toward the debt.

Hughlysses
07-04-2015, 03:12 PM
An acquaintance of mine who owns an EBR received documents on the sale last week. He says there are 8 separate lots, but apparently the receiver can award any combination or all of the lots to a single bidder, in whatever combination is most advantageous for the seller. So the highest bid on a single lot doesn't necessarily mean the buyer will get that lot. It'll be very interesting to see how it turns out.

Brutus1190
07-05-2015, 01:16 AM
Why doesn't Erik Buell have some kind of cause of action against Hero? Didn't they with hold funding in an attempt to force Erik to sell EBR to them?

Scott
07-05-2015, 07:28 AM
An acquaintance of mine who owns an EBR received documents on the sale last week. He says there are 8 separate lots, but apparently the receiver can award any combination or all of the lots to a single bidder, in whatever combination is most advantageous for the seller. So the highest bid on a single lot doesn't necessarily mean the buyer will get that lot. It'll be very interesting to see how it turns out.

I would have to imagine that's true as a matter of practicality. If someone is willing to take over the whole thing and honor warranties, that's more advantageous to the creditors than different groups paying more for individual elements to take them in different directions and abandon existing owners and dealers.

That's why if I were the receiver and judge, I'd want to start with viable entities that were willing to take the whole thing, honor all debts, and continue the business, and individual components would only be available if no viable entities were willing to take it all.

But I don't know how the receiver or judge's hands are tied by legal restrictions.


Why doesn't Erik Buell have some kind of cause of action against Hero? Didn't they with hold funding in an attempt to force Erik to sell EBR to them?

It's hard to know how much of that is real and what is internet rumor. If Hero didn't honor obligations, the new entity (and current receiver) should have legal standing to attempt to collect those debts.

And if there is truth to those rumors, I would hope that would limit their legal standing and ability to bid on EBR.

It would certainly seem unjust and a disservice to creditors if Hero caused the default based on their refusal to pay (when they had the ability) and then were able to buy the company for a song.

I would hope the law has some ability to prevent that, but I'm just a lay-person observing it all, and I don't know either the law or the details of what actually happened beyond a very superficial level.

Just over 2 weeks now. I'm just hoping that whatever happens works well for owners, dealers, suppliers, employees and the future of American Sport-bikes.

Scott
07-05-2015, 07:31 AM
My biggest fear is that this is all sold for scrap and goes away.

My second biggest fear is that Hero will be able to snatch up the technology, throw away everything else, and two years from now we'll be seeing Indian-made 1190RX and SX's being imported to the US.

I'm reasonably optimistic that the outcome will be better than either of those two scenarios, but I'm not confident enough that I won't be nervous until we know more.

Scott
07-05-2015, 07:38 AM
One question I'm really curious about is: "How are future EBR projects tied to Hero?"

So for example, if EBR has a great middle-weight based on the Hastur and that bike requires the (Hero owned) Hastur engine, what happens after the ugly break-up? They may have to start over and buy a new engine from a new supplier.

So hopefully any future models were based on engines EBR actually owns. Since they now own and are making the 1190, hopefully they had the foresight and ability to make sure future engines were EBR and not tied up with Hero.

Hughlysses
07-05-2015, 01:26 PM
^ I'd say if the detailed designs for the Hastur are among the (alleged) projects that EBR had under development for Hero but which they for which they were not paid, they're included in the items to be auctioned and the new owner could bring them to production.

Here's another short blurb in the moto-press about the sale:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/05/erik-buell-racing-assets-auction/

Scott
07-05-2015, 06:49 PM
^ I'd say if the detailed designs for the Hastur are among the (alleged) projects that EBR had under development for Hero but which they for which they were not paid, they're included in the items to be auctioned and the new owner could bring them to production.

Here's another short blurb in the moto-press about the sale:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/05/erik-buell-racing-assets-auction/

There are very few things we can say with certainty regarding all this, but here's one thing that I think I can say with some certainty: It's going to be a looooong two and a half weeks.:nut:

Classax
07-07-2015, 10:40 AM
https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing?fref=nf

See it weird stuff like this that makes things complicated. EBR is closed but whomever used to be their official Facebook persona either never got the memo or is in the know about something. I truly hope there is reason for optimism because the ride in the morning was a BLAST!!!

Hughlysses
07-07-2015, 11:59 AM
Yea, EBR's Facebook guy sure seems VERY hopeful. Let's hope his hope is justified.

Meanwhile, I was trying to see if I could find anything on line indicating restrictions on who can bid in a Chapter 128 filing, and I ran across this document:

http://www.cfa-llc.com/downloads/Chapter_128_Receiverships_Corporate_Financial_Advi sors_LLC.pdf

It's a basically an advertisement for a guy who serves as a receiver, but it gives details of the steps involved in a Chapter 128 filing and gives one example of a company that went through the process and was kept open. The original employees were even guaranteed jobs for at least one year.

Hughlysses
07-07-2015, 12:14 PM
Another article about the sale at Autoevolution: bring back the Uly! (MKII)

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ebr-is-up-for-sale-time-to-build-a-nice-sport-adventure-bike-97578.html

Scott
07-08-2015, 05:13 AM
https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing?fref=nf

See it weird stuff like this that makes things complicated. EBR is closed but whomever used to be their official Facebook persona either never got the memo or is in the know about something. I truly hope there is reason for optimism because the ride in the morning was a BLAST!!!

I think all the arm-chair doom and gloomers aren't recognizing basic facts and math - a couple years ago, a much less established EBR was valued by Hero at approximately $50 million. Since that time, EBR has made huge strides and by any reasonable estimation should have gained value - let's say they're worth $75 million now. If a $75 million company can be obtained for $20 million, people will be interested. And articles like that posted on the facebook page just emphasize the competence of the bikes and value of the company.

If I had the cash (at least $100 million to not only pay off the debts, but keep the lights on until the company is truly up and running) I would consider it a sound investment - as long as the bidding doesn't go too high. And I actually think that will be the story when the dust settles - there will be several interested parties and the bidding will go well over the $20 million required to cover the debt.

Scott
07-08-2015, 05:18 AM
Yea, EBR's Facebook guy sure seems VERY hopeful. Let's hope his hope is justified.

Meanwhile, I was trying to see if I could find anything on line indicating restrictions on who can bid in a Chapter 128 filing, and I ran across this document:

http://www.cfa-llc.com/downloads/Chapter_128_Receiverships_Corporate_Financial_Advi sors_LLC.pdf

It's a basically an advertisement for a guy who serves as a receiver, but it gives details of the steps involved in a Chapter 128 filing and gives one example of a company that went through the process and was kept open. The original employees were even guaranteed jobs for at least one year.

All we can do is speculate, but I suspect the reason EBR didn't continue operations through the sale has to do with the battle between Erik and Hero. I don't know the details, but I suspect the shut-down had to do with conflicts between the two parties and, by necessity, for whatever underlying reasons, they needed to shut down and go to this extreme to make a clean break.

Hughlysses
07-08-2015, 04:56 PM
Another very interesting tidbit today; an EBR dealer on Badweb reported that they received their first communication from EBR since the closure:


Hello to all EBR dealers.
Our apologies for the last months and all the uncertainty and business hardship that the closure of EBR created.
The receiver and his team have worked diligently for a way forward and we are now confident all is headed in the right direction. It is likely that EBR will be under official new ownership as of July 23rd.

That sounds pretty damn positive to me!

Scott
07-08-2015, 06:54 PM
Another very interesting tidbit today; an EBR dealer on Badweb reported that they received their first communication from EBR since the closure:



That sounds pretty damn positive to me!

:thumb:

Scott
07-09-2015, 07:51 AM
It will be interesting to see where gamblers put their money over the coming weeks. A well funded company taking over and promising to fully support current dealers, owners and warranties (the result I believe we're all hoping for) vs. the company truly being done should make a huge difference in the price of bikes currently on showroom floors.

Will buyers be encouraged by EBR's apparent optimism and snap up bikes that are offered at fire sale prices with the hope that they can get a $17,000 bike for much less than that? Will dealers take the chance on raising the price of their existing inventory (and possibly be left holding the bag if things do go badly)? Will dealers drop the prices to encourage gambling buyers to make the jump (and lock in a loss, but potentially mitigate a larger loss)?

Or will both dealers and buyers just sit tight, wait it out, and not risk anything one way or the other until things are more certain?

I really hope this works out for dealers like AF1 who have put so much into this and deserve to be rewarded. And I hope 5 years from now AF1 is raking in money selling EBR's like crazy and making all this just a distant story of 'remember when?'.

Bagger
07-09-2015, 08:14 AM
hmm, Gary Gray

With fellow American performance brand Erik Buell Racing (EBR), in financial upheaval, did Polaris consider a buy-out? “Not really,” Says Gray. “We need to build our own motorcycles, and that's more of a priority for us. Buell has done some really cool stuff over the years and I am sure Erik Buell is working hard to get EBR back up and running again.”

(http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/The-Future-of-Victory-Motorcycles)

Hughlysses
07-09-2015, 09:39 AM
^ Very interesting. That seems to put Polaris out of the running as a potential buyer.

Scott
07-09-2015, 12:12 PM
Bummer. I was hoping they'd be in it.

Hughlysses
07-09-2015, 12:31 PM
Over on Badweb, several people pointed out that Polaris is pretty stretched out already, between Victory, Indian, and recently-acquired Brammo (electric bikes). They also apparently built some huge multi-milllion dollar state-of-the-art painting facility recently just to support Indian.

I'd guess EBR became available too late to fit into Polaris's long-term plans. They keep saying they plan to build more Victory performance oriented bikes, so those are probably under development and EBR's bikes might not mesh well with that lineup.

I'm wild-a** guessing that leaves BRP/Rotax, Harley Davidson, and at least one buyer we never thought about in the bidding.

Scott
07-09-2015, 08:32 PM
Over on Badweb, several people pointed out that Polaris is pretty stretched out already, between Victory, Indian, and recently-acquired Brammo (electric bikes). They also apparently built some huge multi-milllion dollar state-of-the-art painting facility recently just to support Indian.

I'd guess EBR became available too late to fit into Polaris's long-term plans. They keep saying they plan to build more Victory performance oriented bikes, so those are probably under development and EBR's bikes might not mesh well with that lineup.

I'm wild-a** guessing that leaves BRP/Rotax, Harley Davidson, and at least one buyer we never thought about in the bidding.

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one Japanese brand might be interested. For example, Yamaha has their 'Star' brand that attempts to market itself with an 'American' image. Mightn't Yamaha (or another Japanese company) be interested in owning a true American brand?

One interesting thing I noticed when I was in Europe is that in the German or Italian magazines, the Japanese motorcycles often use English in their ads. So you'll be reading through a magazine that's all in German, but when you get to the Suzuki ad it's either entirely or partly in English.

I think someone like Yamaha would recognize the value of being able to sell an American bike in Europe, Australia, Asia. . . and of course the US.

I would personally prefer a company like Polaris because then it truly would be an all-American company, but I suspect some foreign companies might recognize a greater value as an addition to their offerings.

Here's an idea: What if Honda is interested, in part, just to stick it to Hero?

I could also imagine a non-motorcycle company being interested. Honda and BMW both have cars and motorcycles, and Audi bought Ducati (for 1.2 BILLION which makes 20 million seem like peanuts), so I could imagine someone like Ford or any other number of auto manufacturers having an interest buying EBR and adding some 'edginess' to their brand.

And who knows, there could just be someone with a lot of money who would be interested in owning EBR as a very cool "hobby". It wouldn't be that different from owning a sports team, would it? And it would be a bargain compared to most sports teams. I know if I was stinking rich, I would consider something like that a really cool opportunity to get involved in something very fun and very cool. I don't know how much cash someone like Jay Leno has, but I could certainly imagine him having the interest if he had $100 million tucked away to play with. And if he doesn't have or doesn't want to risk that much cash, he has rich friends who he might be able to talk into joining him in such a venture.

Motorcycles have an allure. That's why we're all here. There are a lot of filthy rich individuals and companies out there and I can imagine a number of them at least being interested enough to put in a bid if they think they can get it at a low enough price.

Bagger
07-10-2015, 12:45 AM
Personally I do not hope some rich person buy EBR, to have a hobby. The future for EBR will then "normally" be a small niche brand, and any expand will be just a dream.

About Polaris, well, perhaps they don't have any interest, but at the same time, if they do, they would not shouting it out ether, that would just rice the price.

And yes, I do hope the new owner would be an american comp, to continue have an american superbike, and not an Japanese owner just building that bike in the US, like GoldWing back in the days.

But you have a point, Ford and GM are 2 comp that could have interest, but I doubt that that is the fact, and also for EBR, I guess the future would be better with an known strong motorcycle manufacturer.

One thing is to buy EBR, another thing is to continue production, expand the company and making new products, that is a much more expensive part.

The question is who will buy, and just as important, what will the new owner do with EBR?

But if I try to think different, not at companies that "want" to buy EBR, but more at companies that "needs" to change they're own bikes, well what about MV Agusta (Daimler AG) or Aprilia (Piaggio), would with EBR get a more uptodate bike, a engine they could use in they're own bikes, and could continue using the brand EBR as a Superbike, but using same parts in they're own bikes without having to develop a new engine and other components. Just a thought
And to be clear, I have not scratched the name Polaris from the list jet.

oddball
07-10-2015, 02:13 AM
It will be interesting to see where gamblers put their money over the coming weeks.

Will buyers be encouraged by EBR's apparent optimism and snap up bikes that are offered at fire sale prices?
Will dealers take the chance on raising the price of their existing inventory?
Will dealers drop the prices to encourage gambling buyers to make the jump?

Or will both dealers and buyers just sit tight, wait it out, and not risk anything one way or the other until things are more certain?

Some may, but caution is likely the course of action.
It appears to me they have. Most I've seen list spring sale pricing or full msrp anymore.
I think the dealers who were going to drop prices already did so.

I'm sitting tight.

Scott
07-10-2015, 01:33 PM
Personally I do not hope some rich person buy EBR, to have a hobby. The future for EBR will then "normally" be a small niche brand, and any expand will be just a dream.



I think that depends on the individual. I use the word 'hobby' because I think a company like that would offer intangible rewards beyond, for example, buying a doorknob factory.

But I would anticipate the person buying it would want and expect the company to grow and expand and thrive as a world-class motorcycle manufacturer. I think that's what Erik Buell wants, but he didn't have the cash needed to get "over the hump". As long as whoever buys them has enough cash to keep them running for the next five years until real money is coming in from the 20,000 bikes per year they'll be selling at that point, I think there's no stopping EBR in the future.

oddball
07-11-2015, 12:17 AM
How about a rich enthusiast? Jay Leno maybe?

Plotter
07-12-2015, 03:28 PM
I've heard that Jay Leno did look into it, but I would doubt that he would get into this business... He's a collector...

I am banking on either Hero or Polaris, but the reality is... whoever is buying, as long as they get production going again, and it stays in the US... I'm good...

Hughlysses
07-18-2015, 03:34 AM
Interview with Erik himself about the sale: http://www.powersportsbusiness.com/top-stories/2015/07/16/turnkey-motorcycle-manufacturing-company-for-sale/

Plotter
07-18-2015, 10:52 PM
So the July 21st date is postponed... I wonder when it is actually going to happen then... Thanks for posting the interview... I hadn't found this article yet...

Scott
07-19-2015, 05:06 AM
So the July 21st date is postponed... I wonder when it is actually going to happen then... Thanks for posting the interview... I hadn't found this article yet...

Aaaaaaaaaahhhh I thought we'd at least know something this week. This is torture.

I have to wonder if the delay is exactly what they say it is - taking a little extra time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's - or are they concerned they don't have enough interest?

Or maybe they have someone who is nearly certain to be the one to get it and they want to make sure they have things organized so that new owner can make the announcement properly and have something to offer out of the gate.

Plotter
07-19-2015, 04:39 PM
All I know is from the article Hughlysses posted above... Check it out, it's worth the read..

Bagger
07-20-2015, 04:42 AM
Not easy to understand when the auction will start, and in this post the name Polaris did fall, also a question mark about Erik him self as a buyer.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/with-his-motorcycle-company-up-for-auction-erik-buell-craves-another-comeback-b99535394z1-317329291.html

Scott
07-20-2015, 05:25 AM
Not easy to understand when the auction will start, and in this post the name Polaris did fall, also a question mark about Erik him self as a buyer.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/with-his-motorcycle-company-up-for-auction-erik-buell-craves-another-comeback-b99535394z1-317329291.html

:wtf: Yeah, that article is dated yesterday, seems to be more in-depth than just about anything else we've seen and it still seems to indicate the auction will happen tomorrow.

I guess it's possible the interview might have happened prior to the change and/or the journalist may have been focusing on other things and just went with the previously announced date.

Hughlysses
07-20-2015, 06:30 AM
There are some very interesting details in that article about who EBR owes; you just KNOW they had some really cool stuff in the works.

I traded e-mails with my friend who'd previously received documents from the receiver with details of the sale. He says he hasn't received any notice of a date change as of Saturday. Maybe that info was in error.

ReadyXB
07-20-2015, 08:21 AM
Not easy to understand when the auction will start, and in this post the name Polaris did fall, also a question mark about Erik him self as a buyer.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/with-his-motorcycle-company-up-for-auction-erik-buell-craves-another-comeback-b99535394z1-317329291.html

The article also contains twelve photos of the manufacturing line! The fuel tank test is cool.

Bagger
07-20-2015, 12:24 PM
EBR on Facebook tells us that the auction will NOT come tomorrow
https://www.facebook.com/ErikBuellRacing/posts/10153045092317496

noone1569
07-20-2015, 03:37 PM
Suspense is killing me. Makes sense though. How can they have the auction before all claims have to be in on the 22nd?

Brutus1190
07-24-2015, 01:55 AM
Any word on the sale?

Hughlysses
07-24-2015, 03:17 AM
I have seen it posted a couple of places that it will be "several weeks" before the sale occurs.

noone1569
07-24-2015, 09:57 AM
This crap popped up today

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Eric-Buell-Racing-Bought-by-Hero-Motor

ReadyXB
07-24-2015, 10:07 AM
Time will tell of the "reliable source's" credibility... but wow!

Scott
07-24-2015, 01:17 PM
This crap popped up today

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php/Eric-Buell-Racing-Bought-by-Hero-Motor


Well, IF this turns out to be true (and I think we should probably wait for something more official), I can't say I'd be surprised. I don't think Hero ever stopped wanting it, but I suspect Erik went into receivership with the hope he could find someone else and/or put more pressure on Hero for a better deal.

Again IF this turns out to be true, the delay in the auction may have really been Erik and Hero saying "let's work this out neat and clean and never let it go to auction". Erik will probably be back on board smiling and returning as the face of the company and they'll restart production and continue in a way that, superficially, may make it appear nothing has really changed, but I don't think I (and I suspect many people share this feeling) will ever be able to feel the same way about the company again.

Without Hero (presumably intentionally) holding back funding, they could even become a very successful sportbike brand, but . . . it just won't ever feel right.

Plotter
07-24-2015, 05:53 PM
This waiting game to find out really sucks...

snacktoast
07-24-2015, 08:20 PM
I think it will be a heck of an uphill battle if EBR makes a return. They already had the odds stacked against them, but I think this really, really, really has hurt the brand.
Not to mention the engineering staff that has mostly found employment elsewhere - Harley-Davidson, Polaris/Indian, Lockheed Martin, etc. etc. etc.
Even if it is restarted, I fear that it wouldn't be the same EBR. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'd love to be proven incorrect. :smirk:

Scott
07-24-2015, 08:37 PM
I think it will be a heck of an uphill battle if EBR makes a return. They already had the odds stacked against them, but I think this really, really, really has hurt the brand.
Not to mention the engineering staff that has mostly found employment elsewhere - Harley-Davidson, Polaris/Indian, Lockheed Martin, etc. etc. etc.
Even if it is restarted, I fear that it wouldn't be the same EBR. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'd love to be proven incorrect. :smirk:

I think it will take some work, but I don't think there will be any permanent or long-term damage as long as the new owner has the cash and will to do the right things.

Think of it this way. How many people knew who EBR was 4 months ago? From my experience, VERY few. So if nobody knew them, very few people know anything about what has been happening over the past 6 years, so those events won't have a large negative (or positive) effect on the market.

It will be up to the new owner to reintroduce the brand, and if they're willing to invest the time and money to do that right, all the things we know about will quickly disappear in the rear-view mirror.

Plotter
07-24-2015, 09:52 PM
Scott, you make some very valid points.. I'd just like to add... A lot more people have heard about EBR now... They've been in the news... More people are buying the bikes... More people will see them on the streets... This is opening peoples eyes to the brand and bikes... and I think you are 100% correct.. it really depends on where the new owners take the brand...

buell-fan
07-24-2015, 10:54 PM
So if this reliable source news is correct, EBR is now a 100% Hero owned Indian company, not a US company any more.

snacktoast
07-24-2015, 10:56 PM
From a VERY reliable source close to the situation, the story is pure BS.
For what it's worth, I implicitly trust this source.

buell-fan
07-24-2015, 11:01 PM
From a VERY reliable source close to the situation, the story is pure BS.
For what it's worth, I implicitly trust this source.

That is the best news I've read on the Internet tonight!

Classax
07-24-2015, 11:14 PM
From what we've seen off the company who shall not be mentioned, it is not beyond them to put out disinformation in attempts to discourage other buyers.

Scott
07-25-2015, 05:06 AM
From a VERY reliable source close to the situation, the story is pure BS.
For what it's worth, I implicitly trust this source.

:thumb:


From what we've seen off the company who shall not be mentioned, it is not beyond them to put out disinformation in attempts to discourage other buyers.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The 'source' may very well have been someone from Hero telegraphing their intentions (as opposed to announcing a truly done deal).

I strongly suspect this is the headline Hero hopes to read in the coming weeks and whether or not it comes to be very likely hangs on who else is interested, how interested they are and how much cash they have to offer.

Scott
07-26-2015, 09:54 AM
Note: The following is completely crazy and completely baseless and it will never happen, so you you don't need to tell me that. I already know. But I had some thoughts going through my head last night and I couldn't get them out, so I thought I'd type them out here.

Larry Pegram, until recently, was featured on a Velocity Channel show called Superbike Family. The Velocity Channel, since it's inception, has featured motorcycle themed programming including coverage of the Isle of Man TT.

The Velocity Channel is owned by the Discovery Channel. One of the Discovery Channels biggest stars is Jamie Hyneman of Mythbusters who owns an 1125R, knows Erik Buell and featured his bike on the show at least once (I think maybe more than that).

One of the Discovery Channel's biggest shows was American Chopper. Another big show for them is Gold Rush (a show that features people pursuing their dream to try to be successful gold-miners).

What if some people like Jamie Hyneman, Erik Buell, Larry Pegram, maybe someone like Jay Leno, Splitlath Racing, maybe some private investors etc. etc. etc. pooled their resources and bought EBR. And what if they did so in cooperation with the Discovery Channel who would get broadcasting and merchandising rights (I have to imagine Orange County Choppers T-Shirts made quite a bit of money at the height of the show). The Discovery Channel would sign on for a three-year term and offer to lend operating capital, if needed, over that time to ensure the company will be in business over that three year period. The Discovery Channel could then get several shows out of the deal - one that follows the efforts of EBR to get back up and running and successful, one that follows Larry Pegram as he puts a team together to go racing and maybe one that follows Splitlath Racing (and that one could be on Velocity).

I have a feeling those could be reality shows to end all reality shows. They wouldn't have to throw in a lot of fake drama because there would be real drama related to just doing the impossible task of getting a motorcycle company off the ground (starting with the auction), going racing, etc. I know I'd be glued to my TV every week.

Marketing would no longer be a concern. The shows would provide more marketing than any ad buys could ever provide.

I think that could be really, really cool.

Too bad it's completely crazy and won't happen.

ReadyXB
07-26-2015, 12:14 PM
^ that would be very cool.

IDS posted a clever response today to this Hero story:

"...With the journalistic bar now set so low, Asphalt & Rubber feels comfortable reporting that there is indeed a new owner for Erik Buell Racing, but it is not Hero MotoCorp, but instead the Flying Spaghetti Monster — deity to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster."

Yes! Finally, the truth comes out.

I have absolutely no idea about the who, what, when, or why of the potential buyer(s). I just thought it was a humerous post!

buell-fan
07-26-2015, 07:03 PM
Note: The following is completely crazy and completely baseless and it will never happen, so you you don't need to tell me that. I already know. But I had some thoughts going through my head last night and I couldn't get them out, so I thought I'd type them out here.

Larry Pegram, until recently, was featured on a Velocity Channel show called Superbike Family. The Velocity Channel, since it's inception, has featured motorcycle themed programming including coverage of the Isle of Man TT.

The Velocity Channel is owned by the Discovery Channel. One of the Discovery Channels biggest stars is Jamie Hyneman of Mythbusters who owns an 1125R, knows Erik Buell and featured his bike on the show at least once (I think maybe more than that).

One of the Discovery Channel's biggest shows was American Chopper. Another big show for them is Gold Rush (a show that features people pursuing their dream to try to be successful gold-miners).

What if some people like Jamie Hyneman, Erik Buell, Larry Pegram, maybe someone like Jay Leno, Splitlath Racing, maybe some private investors etc. etc. etc. pooled their resources and bought EBR. And what if they did so in cooperation with the Discovery Channel who would get broadcasting and merchandising rights (I have to imagine Orange County Choppers T-Shirts made quite a bit of money at the height of the show). The Discovery Channel would sign on for a three-year term and offer to lend operating capital, if needed, over that time to ensure the company will be in business over that three year period. The Discovery Channel could then get several shows out of the deal - one that follows the efforts of EBR to get back up and running and successful, one that follows Larry Pegram as he puts a team together to go racing and maybe one that follows Splitlath Racing (and that one could be on Velocity).

I have a feeling those could be reality shows to end all reality shows. They wouldn't have to throw in a lot of fake drama because there would be real drama related to just doing the impossible task of getting a motorcycle company off the ground (starting with the auction), going racing, etc. I know I'd be glued to my TV every week.

Marketing would no longer be a concern. The shows would provide more marketing than any ad buys could ever provide.

I think that could be really, really cool.

Too bad it's completely crazy and won't happen.

Great, well thought out idea. If I had the money and knew people like that I would invest in this. As for marketing and advertising goes, this is the way a lot of those TV stations survive with their format: by making content-specific programming for a target audience. EBR is a truely viable company that just needs American backers and broader target-market advertising to get more sales going in the future.

Hughlysses
07-27-2015, 03:06 PM
According to a couple of posts at Badweb, EBR owners have received a notification from the receiver that the auction has been re-scheduled for August 5 at 10 AM.

Plotter
07-27-2015, 03:42 PM
Better late than never in most cases, but here I'd prefer never...

Hughlysses
07-28-2015, 06:42 AM
Interesting news from multiple Indian sources this morning. They're claiming Hero has reached a settlement with the receiver to buy certain EBR assets (this source states it's EBR's consulting business), which I'm assuming would include all the stuff EBR was working on for Hero:

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/FDJSsEeianzBuH4zvLCrMM/Hero-to-acquire-EBRs-consulting-business.html

Here's a press release from Hero which seems to confirm this story:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/reports/hero-motocorp-clarificationrespect-topress-release-concerningexecutiona-settlement-agreement-by-hmcl-na-inchmcl-americas-inc-1282281.html

This would seem to be a pretty interesting development. $2.8M seems like a bargain price for this portion of EBR since it was stated Hero owed $20M for the work performed by this portion of EBR. I'm guessing the statement about "free and clear of all encumbrances" means in exchange for this sale, Hero relinquishes their 49% interest in the remainder of EBR?

Scott
07-28-2015, 09:47 AM
Interesting news from multiple Indian sources this morning. They're claiming Hero has reached a settlement with the receiver to buy certain EBR assets (this source states it's EBR's consulting business), which I'm assuming would include all the stuff EBR was working on for Hero:

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/FDJSsEeianzBuH4zvLCrMM/Hero-to-acquire-EBRs-consulting-business.html

Here's a press release from Hero which seems to confirm this story:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/reports/hero-motocorp-clarificationrespect-topress-release-concerningexecutiona-settlement-agreement-by-hmcl-na-inchmcl-americas-inc-1282281.html

This would seem to be a pretty interesting development. $2.8M seems like a bargain price for this portion of EBR since it was stated Hero owed $20M for the work performed by this portion of EBR. I'm guessing the statement about "free and clear of all encumbrances" means in exchange for this sale, Hero relinquishes their 49% interest in the remainder of EBR?


:thumb:

This sounds like GREAT news to me. It sounds like Hero is extracting themselves and taking the things they need for their specific motorcycles. That 2.8 million reduces the debt and makes this more attractive to potential buyers while, presumably, leaving the key EBR assets available. I would also assume that in the negotiation of this deal, Erik would have ensured he had what he needed (the right, for example, to make a variation of the Hastur engine if that was in EBR's long range plans).

This also probably explains the previous report of Hero buying EBR - they probably just had the details screwed up.

Hero still may try to make a bid for the rest of the company next Wednesday, but they won't NEED to buy those assets the way they would have otherwise. This could very well be paving the road for the sort of outcome most of us are hoping for.

Scott
07-28-2015, 09:54 AM
I suspect this also explains the delay in the auction. Hero probably wanted to lock their key assets up and now to prevent them from being available in the general auction.

Now anybody who is willing to spend approximately $17 million can purchase an operating sport-bike manufacturer.

I think that's a bargain by any reasonable estimate. If somebody started from scratch to try to get to where EBR is right now, I'd be willing to bet they'd have to spend close to $100 million and 5 years.

Hughlysses
07-28-2015, 11:18 AM
Here's a link to a copy of Hero's press release confirming the deal. There's nothing on Hero Motocorp's website yet.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/reports/hero-motocorp-clarificationrespect-topress-release-concerningexecutiona-settlement-agreement-by-hmcl-na-inchmcl-americas-inc-1282281.html

I tend to think this means the Hero/EBR divorce has been finalized and that Hero got what they wanted and is out of the picture. NOW, if the right outfit will just buy the remainder of EBR...

Scott
07-28-2015, 12:16 PM
Here's a link to a copy of Hero's press release confirming the deal. There's nothing on Hero Motocorp's website yet.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/reports/hero-motocorp-clarificationrespect-topress-release-concerningexecutiona-settlement-agreement-by-hmcl-na-inchmcl-americas-inc-1282281.html

I tend to think this means the Hero/EBR divorce has been finalized and that Hero got what they wanted and is out of the picture. NOW, if the right outfit will just buy the remainder of EBR...

I'm reluctant to assume they're out of the picture. If bidding tops out at a couple million, I think they'll snap it up for themselves.

But hopefully there are other interested parties that will ensure bidding gets to a level that Hero won't want to match. And now that they have what they need, they'll have less motivation to bid beyond a certain level.

Hughlysses
07-28-2015, 01:02 PM
I guess we have to wait until next week to find out. Here's a link to a more-complete version of the settlement letter and press release:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/article/article_pdf.php?autono=2189221&num=0

Scott
07-28-2015, 01:55 PM
I guess we have to wait until next week to find out. Here's a link to a more-complete version of the settlement letter and press release:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/news/article/article_pdf.php?autono=2189221&num=0

I find the phrase "HMCL Entities and the Receiver have agreed to resolve all disputes" interesting. That phrase, combined with previous rumors of Hero not paying their bills could mean that the 2.8 million for the intellectual property is just the public transaction - "oh, but the way, Hero is also paying $19.2 million of past-due invoices, but we'll keep that quiet and nobody will be sending out press releases about that."

It is also possible that Hero has taken themselves out of the running to bid on the rest as part of the whole discussion . . . but all of that is wild speculation.

The bottom line is it seems that things are being worked out so that the actual bidding next week should hopefully be smooth and free of drama.

snacktoast
07-28-2015, 02:55 PM
Scott, what you say in your first paragraph is much how I read into that as well...That they are resolving their debts to EBR, purchasing the rights to the in-progress IP, and dissolving the relationship.

Very interesting indeed.

Hughlysses
07-28-2015, 04:25 PM
Scott- you may have nailed it with your speculation above. There was a brief post (deleted almost immediately after it was posted) on a well-known Buell forum by a well-known "insider" that said he would not be surprised to find that EBR's debts had been already resolved. If Hero paid their past-due bills the receiver may have used that money to pay EBR's past-due bills as well.

Of course, this would mean EBR is debt-free, in which case what happens then? It's going to be an interesting week and a half.

Plotter
07-28-2015, 07:41 PM
It does talk about still needing to approved and the answer won't come until August 10th... 4 days after the judge decides on everything else...

Very interesting articles out there... I wonder why the EBR page hasn't updated us with anything...

snacktoast
07-28-2015, 07:45 PM
I would not expect any updates until the proceedings have been completed.

Hughlysses
07-29-2015, 05:00 AM
A little more info this morning; according to this article, Hero states they have no interest in acquiring the remainder of EBR:

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/51ZQM3D5s6k4VK4UZu0R4O/Hero-MotoCorp-will-not-bid-to-buy-out-bankrupt-partner-EBR.html

Scott
07-29-2015, 08:26 AM
Scott- you may have nailed it with your speculation above. There was a brief post (deleted almost immediately after it was posted) on a well-known Buell forum by a well-known "insider" that said he would not be surprised to find that EBR's debts had been already resolved. If Hero paid their past-due bills the receiver may have used that money to pay EBR's past-due bills as well.

Of course, this would mean EBR is debt-free, in which case what happens then? It's going to be an interesting week and a half.

Well if a portion of the debt has been paid and if Hero is really removing themselves (and I read the article you posted this morning a few times and I'm still not quite sure where they stand), that would make it much more possible for Erik to buy it himself with the help of some backers.

And I think there's almost no question that, even if there's no other interest from big companies, Erik will outbid anybody who is bidding for scrap and at least be back in some (possibly limited) capacity.

I suspect the most likely scenario at the moment is that somebody with deep pockets will buy it and employ Erik (and likely give him a symbolic ownership stake), but if there aren't any big-bidders interested, I think Erik will find a way to scrape together enough to buy it himself and get back up and running in some form.

And I still won't completely dismiss the possibility that Hero could be that deep-pocket buyer.

Hughlysses
07-29-2015, 08:44 AM
The problem with Hero buying it is that (at least according to one former EBR employee) none of the former EBR employees are willing to work for them. Basically he's said something to the effect of "it'll be a cold day in hell before any of us work for Hero". Hero might find some assembly line people in the area desperate for jobs, but without the former EBR designers, there wouldn't seem to be much point.

Scott
07-29-2015, 09:22 AM
The problem with Hero buying it is that (at least according to one former EBR employee) none of the former EBR employees are willing to work for them. Basically he's said something to the effect of "it'll be a cold day in hell before any of us work for Hero". Hero might find some assembly line people in the area desperate for jobs, but without the former EBR designers, there wouldn't seem to be much point.

That may be why they seem to have lost interest.

I really hope they're just done. When we saw the report that Hero had bought everything, it gave me a sick feeling. Sure, it would be be nice for current owners and dealers to have some certainty that the brand would continue, but doing so under Hero seems like a steep price.

Bagger
07-29-2015, 11:47 AM
The "stupid side" is that HERO have got much more than they would have to pay for the technology they have gotten. To get the tech in normal price, would have been much higher. You CAN say that they have been smart, well, IF the marked is just in Asia: Yes, but if they want to enter US and Europe......, A US comp in real problem, and still they will introduce Hero produced products in US, and I rely hope that the US/Europe ppl will give them a cold welcome.

I know business is "hard", but to try to drink all blood before you watch em die, and then when "police" come, give em a check for a better feeling of ethics. Well, for me, let em join the highway to .........

oddball
07-29-2015, 03:23 PM
Shame the Hero design work couldn't have been dropped in the deepest part of the ocean.

Hughlysses
07-29-2015, 04:29 PM
Maybe they didn't dimension any of the drawings, or they designed in some cleverly hidden fatal flaws. :evilgrinblack:

Plotter
07-29-2015, 07:25 PM
Maybe they didn't dimension any of the drawings, or they designed in some cleverly hidden fatal flaws. :evilgrinblack:

You know.. with a company like Hero, I could see them taking a brilliant design, and screwing people over... Why do it right, with high quality, when we can do it halfway and make just as much money?...

I wouldn't buy a Hero...

Scott
07-30-2015, 07:34 AM
After all this, I'm no Hero fan. All indications are that they blew a perfectly good opportunity to partner with EBR and create a bright future for both entities for no better reason than they were greedy, wanted it all, and didn't realize the value Erik and his team brought ( I think they also underestimated his ability to extract himself out from under their thumb ).

BUT, with that said, I have a feeling that 10 years from now EBR will be going strong and Hero will be a big reason they'll be in that position at that time. What if Hero hadn't offered the cash 3 years ago? Would EBR have made it to this point or would it have gone quietly in the night before the end of 2012?

I'm very optimistic that EBR will be in a good position after August 5th and a large reason they'll be where they'll be will be because of Hero's investment over the past several years.

I think Hero made that investment because the imagined themselves eventually taking over, but bad motives or not, EBR is still stronger because of their involvement.

And I think Erik was smart enough, after his experience with Harley, to always be in a position that he had an escape route. I think when we look back at this we'll understand better that what happened in April wasn't the catastrophic end we thought at the time, but rather Erik taking his escape route.

snacktoast
07-30-2015, 10:49 AM
BUT, with that said, I have a feeling that 10 years from now EBR will be going strong and Hero will be a big reason they'll be in that position at that time. What if Hero hadn't offered the cash 3 years ago? Would EBR have made it to this point or would it have gone quietly in the night before the end of 2012?

No cash from Hero = No RX/SX release.
I suspect that the company would have still existed, but on a MUCH smaller scale.

Bagger
07-30-2015, 10:52 AM
Well Scott, life and business can in many ways be compared with chess, you can win, loose, and make a draw. BUT in chess, you always tries to have an escape route, that can force a draw. Just like I guess Erik did,,, Did see he could not win, was on a loosing route, but did set the right move to force a draw.

Many people have said that Erik is a real good designer and builder, but a hell of a businessman, well, after this "forced draw" he have proven that he is also a good business man

Hughlysses
08-02-2015, 06:27 AM
Someone has photographed the latest letter from the Receiver, which provides more details on the agreement with Hero, and posted it to the BuellXB page on Facebook.

My synopsis:
(1) On June 26, Hero sent a letter to the receiver "demanding" release of property and intangible assets that EBR was working on saying it belonged to Hero.
(2) EBR countered that Hero had not paid for the work done and therefore Hero did not own the property and intangible assets in question.
(3) The Receiver had an independent lawyer investigate the claims.
(4) Hero and EBR made an effort to negotiate these and other claims.
(5) The Receiver settled on a payment of $2.8M from Hero in exchange for the property and intangible assets and a promise that neither party would make any further claims against the other. The Receiver determined that this settlement was in the best interest of the creditors of EBR as the outcome of any litigation by EBR against Hero was not certain and could involve substantial legal fees.

The actual Settlement Agreement is not included and no doubt includes additional details.

Not a lot of detail, but it gives us a better idea of what went on. Feel free to go to Facebook and read the documents yourself.

In a very interesting followup post in the same thread on FB, a poster claims they contacted the Receiver and was told EBR has enough parts on hand to complete an additional 250 bikes. According to the post, the Receiver also stated that the buyer of the remaining assets of EBR will be required to honor warranties on existing EBR motorcycles.

I guess we'll find out in ~4 days.

d_adams
08-02-2015, 10:39 AM
The big question now is, does that mean hero has no vested interest in EBR now, are they totally split and have given up the 49.2% partnership rights?

Hughlysses
08-02-2015, 10:50 AM
^ Yea, that is a big question. It's hard for us legal laymen to tell from the papers. I'm guessing either (a) Hero has already relinquished all ownership as part of the deal or (b) when the sale is completed by the Receiver, the money first goes to pay all the creditors and 49% of what's left (if anything) goes to Hero and 51% goes to Erik and the neither of them holds any part of EBR. Either way, Hero's out of the picture.

Sparky
08-02-2015, 12:11 PM
I hope that whoever buys EBR gets to (1) keep the race transporter that has had the "Hero" name all over it and (2) immediately remove all mention of Hero from it!

Hughlysses
08-02-2015, 12:15 PM
Here's a concise FAQ of what happens in a receivership. The last bullet states what happens as far as the people who own stock in the company:


http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/car/receivership-faqs.jhtml

They get paid if there's any money left after all the creditors have been paid off.

noone1569
08-03-2015, 08:20 AM
The big question now is, does that mean hero has no vested interest in EBR now, are they totally split and have given up the 49.2% partnership rights?

No, equity in the company was not transferred with this dealing. EBR is still owned 49% by Hero (if everything we have seen is correct). That will happen at the auction.

Hughlysses
08-03-2015, 09:12 AM
OK, thanks for the clarification. I take it this means if EBR's remaining assets are auctioned for say $30M this Wednesday, and $20M of that is required to pay off the creditors, and ~$1M is required to pay the Receiver for his efforts in handling this, Hero would get a check for 49% of the remaining $9M and Erik would get a check for 51% of the remaining $9M, correct? If the sale doesn't generate enough cash to cover the bills, the creditors get proporitionately less than they're owed, the original owners of EBR don't get squat, right?

Hughlysses
08-03-2015, 10:11 AM
A little more news this morning; Hero's board of directors approved the agreement to pay $2.8M to the Receiver for Hero projects as announced last week:

http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/stock_market/co rp_notices.php?autono=1350461 (http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/stock_market/corp_notices.php?autono=1350461)

Plotter
08-03-2015, 12:03 PM
I don't understand why Hero America had anything to do with this agreement. Shouldn't they be represented by the Receiver as owners as well? We keep looking at this as Erik and EBR going under, but it directly impacts them as part owners as well... IF they don't get the funds together, won't Hero also be liable to close out remaining debts?...

Hughlysses
08-03-2015, 12:39 PM
^ I hadn't thought about it, but that's a good question. I guess Hero America as a customer for design work from EBR is considered separately from Hero as a 49% owner of EBR.

The Receiver's first responsibility is to creditors. By accepting this agreement with Hero, the Receiver believes getting $2.8M for this stuff is the best deal he could come up with for getting funds to pay off creditors.

I was under the impression that since it's a "limited liability corporation" (LLC), the stockholders in the company (Hero & Erik) aren't liable for any debts of the company. Of course, if the sale doesn't generate enough money to cover the debts with some left over, the stockholders lose their entire original investment in the company.

Noone1569- you seem to have some legal knowledge. Am I close here?

noone1569
08-03-2015, 01:07 PM
I would think you're on the money. I am not familiar with WI128 at all, but the receiver's duty is to make whole the creditors while simulataneously doing the best for the future of EBR.

EBR is partially owned by some entity of Hero (no clue how the organization worked out, EBR, Inc. pledge ownership shares to Hero America, etc. ..). At the same time EBR was doing work for Hero. That work will now be transferred to Hero for the 2.8$ mil settlement. This does not negate hero's stake in EBR at all.

Brutus1190
08-03-2015, 04:20 PM
My question is why isnt Hero being held accountable for the +- $20 million dollars that they owed EBR for the development work done on these new bikes? It seems to me that the receiver left some $17 million dollars on the table here. I dont get that.....I would think that since Hero has a stake in EBR and a subsidiary of Hero owed EBR $20 million then that part of the money should come out of Heros share of any proceeds. Otherwise Hero has benefited to the tune of about $17 million....Am I way off base here?

Hughlysses
08-03-2015, 04:38 PM
^ The implication from the Receiver's latest letter is things went this way because EBR did not have a 100% guaranteed case against Hero.

Hero claimed that property and "intangible assets" that were in EBR's possession belonged to Hero and therefore should be excluded from the auction. EBR had stated in their original documentation to the Receiver that Hero owed EBR a substantial sum. One of the "lots" to be auctioned included the property, intangible assets, and accounts due that were part of EBR's work for Hero. I guess if you successfully bid on this lot and won you could have tried to collect the money due to EBR from Hero. Hero claimed they didn't owe EBR anything. Hero also claimed EBR had breeched their agreements, which I take to mean the stuff EBR was working on was supposed to be confidential, so that by offering it for sale EBR was in breech of their agreement.

The Receiver had an independent lawyer investigate the claims. The Receiver's letter states
Given the complexities of the issues, the uncertainties of the outcome of litigation between the parties, the substantial legal and other costs which would be incurred in pursuing that litigation, and the potential damages, interest, penalties, and attorneys' fee which EBR may be responsible for in the event of an unfavorable outcome in any litigation with HMC and HMC Affiliates, the Receiver believes that the Settlement Agreement is in the best interest of all creditors of EBR and all parties in interest.

There must have been enough gray area in the contracts or lack of documentation in the files to give Hero a chance at winning in court. Hero is a HUGE company compared to EBR and no doubt could keep things tied up in court for years, which might have scared away any potential buyers for the remainder of EBR. As stated above, the Receiver's main responsibilities are to the creditors. If the EBR sale is tied up in court, nobody gets a dime until it's settled.

I don't know that we'll ever get the whole truth, but I think you're basically correct: Hero got away with murder.

d_adams
08-03-2015, 06:04 PM
It's also possibly that hero will be relinquishing it's stake in EBR. The "free and clear of all encumbrances" line is what made me think that. While it's not exactly an amicable split, it is a possibility.

Plotter
08-03-2015, 08:04 PM
Have you guys heard that crazy guy on the EBR page talk all kinds of crap about Erik Buell?... What's the back story on this guy? Disgruntled EBR now paid by Hero employee?

Brutus1190
08-03-2015, 10:33 PM
I hope Hero doesn't bid on EBR......I think it would kill the brand as many people see Hero and what they hAve done to EBR for what it really is......theft. I don't think they would sell anything in the USA.

Plotter
08-03-2015, 10:41 PM
Honestly, if they honor the warranties and keep selling them... It's not the worst thing that can happen... I'd prefer that to going under...

Hughlysses
08-04-2015, 03:54 AM
I hope Hero doesn't bid on EBR......I think it would kill the brand as many people see Hero and what they hAve done to EBR for what it really is......theft. I don't think they would sell anything in the USA.

Hero has been quoted since they made the deal for their stuff that they have no interest in buying the remainder of EBR, so I think they're out of the picture. They may get some money from the sale on Wednesday, but they will no longer be involved after that.

Hughlysses
08-04-2015, 08:54 AM
Have you guys heard that crazy guy on the EBR page talk all kinds of crap about Erik Buell?... What's the back story on this guy? Disgruntled EBR now paid by Hero employee?

Wow- I saw a few of his posts this morning. Man, Erik really does bring some haters out of the woodwork. Over the weekend, I got into it in the comments below a posting on the Facebook page for "Jalopnik" (kind of a motorhead site) with a Buell/EBR hater. One test ride, and he knows everything Buell ever did is crap and we're all losers. Seriously?

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 05:15 AM
Today's the big day- my fingers are crossed!

Scott
08-05-2015, 09:49 AM
Today's the big day- my fingers are crossed!

:nut:

It's such an odd feeling to just be sitting here waiting with absolutely no idea what we'll be hearing in the coming hours.

And hopefully we will be hearing something. If this just drags on with no news, I may go seriously crazy.

noone1569
08-05-2015, 09:53 AM
Someone's gotta have insider info?!?!

Plotter
08-05-2015, 11:06 AM
Somebody on the Facebook page was saying they requested to get the call in to the hearing. I will check and see if any news is posted. Anything on BWB?

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 11:09 AM
A Badweb Buell/EBR insider posted "the deal is done" at ~11:50 EDT but there will be no record of these posts if you look there.

The suspense is killing me!

Scott
08-05-2015, 12:14 PM
According to a post on Erik Buell's Facebook page (from a third party), it's The Belfer Group.

Scott
08-05-2015, 12:17 PM
I'm not sure if this is it or not, but every search I have seems to keep coming up with the same thing:

http://www.belfergroup.com/

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 12:39 PM
^ some guy named Demetri Melekos posted that to Erik's FB page. He seems to be legitimate, not just someone trying to start something.

Maybe an efficient lighting company is trying to broaden their product line? :confused:

Scott
08-05-2015, 12:45 PM
^ some guy named Demetri Melekos posted that to Erik's FB page. He seems to be legitimate, not just someone trying to start something.

Maybe an efficient lighting company is trying to broaden their product line? :confused:

That or it could be a relatively new investment company (set up just for this purpose?) that doesn't show up on Google.

Either way, I assume it's going to be all about cash and the company should stay relatively unchanged. Demetri's post seemed excited (and Demetri appears to be an EBR fan), so I assume it's a going concern. If it had been a motorcycle company, there could be a concern they were just buying it for certain specific assets, but if an investment company (or lighting company or whatever) is buying it, I assume they want EBR to function mostly on its own.

mackja
08-05-2015, 12:46 PM
Well I have to say I did not see that one coming! If they want to build EBR's I am all for it. Since it would seem they have no experience with motorcycle design, development or manufacturing that Eric and company will be at the helm of that end of the business. Really would like to know more, waited this long what is a few more hours or days!!

Scott
08-05-2015, 12:53 PM
Well I have to say I did not see that one coming! If they want to build EBR's I am all for it. Since it would seem they have no experience with motorcycle design, development or manufacturing that Eric and company will be at the helm of that end of the business. Really would like to know more, waited this long what is a few more hours or days!!


Demetri said: "a new chapter starts today for Erik Buell's legendary innovative company" and he's posting from the site of the auction, so I assume the intention is to continue making motorcycles.

My guess is the Belfer Group is different than the lighting company and it is probably a consortium of a number of investors (Erik Buell probably being one), but I guess we'll know more soon.

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 01:02 PM
There's a Canal Group investment company in Arizona led by a guy named Todd Belfer; maybe Demetri got a little mixed up in posting?

Edit- Demetri just responded to a question on Facebook and confirmed that this is the Belfer Group out of New Jersey, the lighting manufacturer.

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 01:35 PM
MAJOR UPDATE.

Bruce Belfer just posted:

Actually, the Atlantic Metals Group has acquired the assets of EBR as a going concern. Dimitri, please correct the post.

Scott
08-05-2015, 01:43 PM
I saw Bruce Belfer's name when I was researching the Belfer group and he's the owner. I wonder if he was bidding against Atlantic Metals Group and they outbid him or I wonder if he is associated with Atlantic Metals.

Either way, it seems that somebody purchased them with the intention of continuing the business, so great news and best of luck to the new owner!

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 01:47 PM
This is crazy and very interesting. I doubt ANYBODY except maybe some EBR insiders would have had the slightest clue on any of these companies as potential bidders.

Scott
08-05-2015, 01:48 PM
From the string on Erik's page, it looks like Demetri, Bruce and Atlantic Metals were all bidding and Atlantic Metals was the winner.

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 01:54 PM
Yea, I think you're right, and oddly enough, it seems to have been an amicable competition.

Scott
08-05-2015, 02:14 PM
Yea, I think you're right, and oddly enough, it seems to have been an amicable competition.

I suspect they're probably all motorcycle people and happy it will continue. And if they stay on good terms, maybe they can work together and if, for example, the buyer needs cash down the road, one of the lower bidders could buy a stake.

kneepucker
08-05-2015, 02:36 PM
AND.....if EBR decides to continue campaigning in roadracing, but needs to save some $$, I will gladly race their bikes for free!! Heck, I might even pay them.....now I just gotta get my AMA license paperwork going......

Plotter
08-05-2015, 06:05 PM
I am very relieved, and think it is very interesting that none of us really saw this coming...

Any word from Atlantic Metals?

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 06:11 PM
I haven't found anything yet, but the winning bidder was definitely "The Atlantic Metals Group".

Plotter
08-05-2015, 06:56 PM
I looked them up and haven't found anything relevant about them... Where are they located? That Belfer guy is going to let Erik run the company again?

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 07:38 PM
I finally found a listing; they're in Farmingdale, NJ:

http://www.bizapedia.com/nj/ATLANTIC-METALS-GROUP-LLC.html

Plotter
08-05-2015, 07:43 PM
I found that Dave fellow... Not sure what he's going to do for the motorcycle game really, but really glad it has an owner... The other two fellas had a clear link to the motorcycle game... I hope everything works out for the best...

I was really thinking that this would be top trending on Facebook... but nothing... lol...

I hope there are some articles covering the details soon...

I'd like to know the plans for the future...

Hughlysses
08-05-2015, 07:54 PM
Well, Belfer is friends with Erik on FB, and he's a member of the EBR 1190 owner's group, so those sound like good things.

Scott
08-05-2015, 08:01 PM
I finally found a listing; they're in Farmingdale, NJ:

http://www.bizapedia.com/nj/ATLANTIC-METALS-GROUP-LLC.html


Well, Belfer is friends with Erik on FB, and he's a member of the EBR 1190 owner's group, so those sound like good things.

So maybe an enthusiast with money. :thumb: Could be interesting.

I imagine we'll hear much more tomorrow after things are finalized.

Plotter
08-05-2015, 09:04 PM
So maybe an enthusiast with money. :thumb: Could be interesting.

I imagine we'll hear much more tomorrow after things are finalized.

Belfer lost the auction... He was representing the Belfer Group. There were three bidders.

Bruce Belfer- representing the Belfer Group

Demetri Melekos- represeting US Heritage Powersports

David Czerniawski- representing Altantic Metals Group (I think this is who is Atlantic anyway, I saw his name tossed around on BadWeather)

Atlantic Metals Group won and therefore David would be the guy making the calls now...

Just an FYI... I think there has been some confusion based upon the responses from Demetri and Bruce...

I might be confused too, but I'm trying to put all the pieces together..

oddball
08-05-2015, 09:56 PM
Now to see how long it takes for AMG to make a statement on the purchase and any plans for the future. "The 2016 AMG/EBR or EBR/AMG 1190AX"?

ljm
08-05-2015, 11:39 PM
It is curious that both of the losing bidders are out there commenting, and both are saying that all is a go for EBR. Wonder what they all said over breakfast before the auction?

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 02:13 AM
Belfer lost the auction... He was representing the Belfer Group. There were three bidders.

Bruce Belfer- representing the Belfer Group

Demetri Melekos- represeting US Heritage Powersports

David Czerniawski- representing Altantic Metals Group (I think this is who is Atlantic anyway, I saw his name tossed around on BadWeather)

Atlantic Metals Group won and therefore David would be the guy making the calls now...

Just an FYI... I think there has been some confusion based upon the responses from Demetri and Bruce...

I might be confused too, but I'm trying to put all the pieces together..

I don't think that's right. David Czerniawski is with Atlantic Metals and Alloys located in Stratford, Connecticut. The winning bidder was Atlantic Metals, LLC which seems to be a different company.

I think Demetri met Bruce Belfer at the auction, and knew that Belfer won the auction, but got the company name wrong. Both the Belfer Group and Atlantic Metals, LLC are located in Farmingdale, New Jersey. That just seems like too much of a coincidence. I think Belfer is associated with both companies.

Hopefully all will be made clear after the court hearing later today.

Scott
08-06-2015, 04:27 AM
Belfer lost the auction... He was representing the Belfer Group. There were three bidders.

Bruce Belfer- representing the Belfer Group

Demetri Melekos- represeting US Heritage Powersports

David Czerniawski- representing Altantic Metals Group (I think this is who is Atlantic anyway, I saw his name tossed around on BadWeather)

Atlantic Metals Group won and therefore David would be the guy making the calls now...

Just an FYI... I think there has been some confusion based upon the responses from Demetri and Bruce...

I might be confused too, but I'm trying to put all the pieces together..


I don't think that's right. David Czerniawski is with Atlantic Metals and Alloys located in Stratford, Connecticut. The winning bidder was Atlantic Metals, LLC which seems to be a different company.

I think Demetri met Bruce Belfer at the auction, and knew that Belfer won the auction, but got the company name wrong. Both the Belfer Group and Atlantic Metals, LLC are located in Farmingdale, New Jersey. That just seems like too much of a coincidence. I think Belfer is associated with both companies.

Hopefully all will be made clear after the court hearing later today.

Yeah, what Plotter said was my initial thought, but after Hughlysses found that listing for a NJ Atlantic Metals, that made sense. Belfer probably owns several companies so that's where the confusion came in.

And if Belfer owns several companies hopefully he has the experience and cash to make this work.

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 05:07 AM
Belfer has made a few more posts on Facebook over night- he appears to be the one that won the auction.

Scott
08-06-2015, 05:25 AM
Belfer has made a few more posts on Facebook over night- he appears to be the one that won the auction.

Can you summarize? I don't see anything new on Erik's page (and I feel a little uncomfortable sending Mr. Belfer a friend request).

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 07:00 AM
Look on the "EBR 1190 Owner's Group" page. Basically he said he appreciates all the enthusiasm and he expects good things are ahead.

Scott
08-06-2015, 09:10 AM
Look on the "EBR 1190 Owner's Group" page. Basically he said he appreciates all the enthusiasm and he expects good things are ahead.

Thanks! Found it. :thumb:

Sounds very promising, and, in advance of more official news, it seems we can presume EBR will continue much like they were prior to shut-down but under US ownership and with Hero no longer in the picture.

They may be a little tighter in terms of budget (though while Hero had deep pockets, all indications are they didn't like to dip in those pockets). The guys in Australia who seemed to be getting things going can pick up where they left off. Splitlath can continue their efforts and likely win a championship in China. Hopefully Larry Pegram can get back up and running (presumably in Moto-America), and we may get a chance to see those really cool new projects that were nearly complete. (remember that Japanese engine company we saw in some of the court papers?)

I'm starting to get excited.:biggrin:

Bagger
08-06-2015, 09:13 AM
Found this article on the net

http://myinforms.com/en/a/15248458-ebr-rumored-to-have-been-bought-by-atlantic-metals-group-needs-confirmation/

Scott
08-06-2015, 09:20 AM
Found this article on the net

http://myinforms.com/en/a/15248458-ebr-rumored-to-have-been-bought-by-atlantic-metals-group-needs-confirmation/

I think Hughlysses is probably a more skilled investigative journalist than them . . . and he's probably their source. :lol:

Plotter
08-06-2015, 10:02 AM
It will be nice when the dust settles and we can all sit on our bikes with smiles on our faces knowing that the new leadership has our best interests in mind...

It is very confusing, and I'll be happier than anything that Bruce is the winner, as his responses are very positive...

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 10:10 AM
Well, the court hearing should be underway; hopefully we'll know something soon. At least one person I know requested to be allowed to listen by phone (people who got the letter from the Receiver could request that). Hopefully he'll send me an update if we don't hear anything else.

And even more hopefully this hearing is a complete formality with some clerk reading a bunch of legaleze followed by the judge saying "Any objections? No? The sale is approved." :pray:

Plotter
08-06-2015, 10:50 AM
Who did they decide who got a letter from the Receiver? I'm guessing this was anybody that purchased prior to the craziness and announcement.

I hope when the sale is finalized that Erik updates us on what really happened with Hero...

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 11:17 AM
^ I think you're correct on who got the letters.

Apparently the hearing is over. Short summary posted to Badweb:


The Courts approved:

- Hero settlement
- EBR sale

Mr. Belfer
- self-labeled as a fan and admirer of Erik Buell's work - seems to be just what's needed for a re-birth, or actually, continuing endeavor.

I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of Hero objection!

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 11:28 AM
Confirmation: http://www.jsonline.com/business/erik-buell-racing-assets-sold-to-metals-company-for-225-million-b99551917z1-320916221.html

Doug Porcaro
08-06-2015, 04:04 PM
Sad...

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 04:19 PM
What's sad? The guy (Bruce Belfer, confirmed to be principal of Atlantic Metals Group) has confirmed he intends to keep EBR going and he apparently has DEEP pockets!

Plotter
08-06-2015, 07:17 PM
That was a very random word with no qualifying or clarifying additions...

The suspense... is killing me...:toilet:

Hughlysses
08-06-2015, 07:44 PM
Yea, I was kind of hoping the new owner would immediately come out with a press release with a bunch of info, but no such luck. I guess it takes at least a day or two for money to get transferred, papers, signed, details worked out, etc.

Plotter
08-06-2015, 08:31 PM
I'm sure that guy is freaking stoked to have the opportunity to come in a not only save a brand, but one with such a polarizing connection with the public... Of course there are people that don't care... (non-motorcyclists..) but everybody else either loves or hates the brand and everything it represents...

I would immediately go and take a tour of the facility...

There is so much that has to be done to get it back up and running... Hiring... infrastructure... documentation and paperwork...

I hope we can look back on this in a year or two and just smile and think about how awesome it was to see the history unfold...

ReadyXB
08-06-2015, 11:05 PM
I would immediately go and take a tour of the facility...
Tours were taken by prospective buyers well before the auction. I certainly would, if I were considering purchasing a company!

Hughlysses
08-07-2015, 04:07 AM
Motorcycle.com article this morning: http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/08/07/industry-news/new-owners-erik-buell-racing/

Here's what Erik had to say about it:


Reached via text this afternoon, Erik Buell said he is working with the new owner on “how to roll out the story.” Pressed for details, Buell said, “He’ll tell his story his way and in his time schedule. As it should be.”

He’s a bike guy, though?

“Yes,” texts Buell.

Doug Porcaro
08-07-2015, 09:41 AM
Sorry, I just read Bruce's recent comment and I don't listen to rumors. Figured they had other intentions. Hopefully it's certain.

Hughlysses
08-07-2015, 10:06 AM
Sorry, I just read Bruce's recent comment and I don't listen to rumors. Figured they had other intentions. Hopefully it's certain.

Given Buell's previous trials, it's easy to assume the worst, but I think this is about as good of an outcome as we could have expected. The guy has money and he's "self-labeled as a fan and admirer of Erik Buell's work" according to one guy who listened in on the court hearing yesterday.

1125rCya
08-07-2015, 01:07 PM
Who owns the right to Buell? The name and the rights to make 1125r parts Anyone..

Hughlysses
08-07-2015, 01:14 PM
^ The new owner bought everything, lock, stock and barrel. He owns it all.

Doug Porcaro
08-07-2015, 01:20 PM
You're probably right. I really want him to succeed. The designs have world class appeal and just need proper execution. This country's sportbike struggle is pathetic and hopefully ends now.

Hughlysses
08-07-2015, 01:47 PM
It also appears based on what people who should know are posting, is the new owner is free of all previous debt. The ~$5M that was generated from the sale goes to pay off debts and the books are wiped clean under receivership. That gives him a hell of a running start.

Check this thread for what the new owner has to say: http://ebrforum.com/showthread.php?364-Meet-the-New-Owner-of-EBR

Plotter
08-07-2015, 02:26 PM
Tours were taken by prospective buyers well before the auction. I certainly would, if I were considering purchasing a company!

It's completely different taking a tour as a prospective buyer, than taking a tour as a new owner...

It's like a motorcycle... I've test ridden it... but completely different when you are in the pilot seat and it's yours...

ReadyXB
08-07-2015, 02:50 PM
I'm sure it is. If that's what you meant, I'll let you tell Mr. Belfer that taking a tour of his new facilities should be at the top of his to-do list. :)


I hope we can look back on this in a year or two and just smile and think about how awesome it was to see the history unfold...
I agree! And also very neat for those who own a piece of the 1190 history.