Shock/Fork cross-reference

[LeesEBR]

Is there another shock that is similar to the EBR, just shorter?

Same for fork springs?

[Cooter]

Yes, of course there is. What are you trying to do? Lower an EBR? Because thats a completely different conversation.

[LeesEBR]

Yup, looking at lowering it for the Black Lightning look. I'm familiar with geometries and how things are supposed to work together, yada yada yada.

After posting this, I chatted with Erik Buell briefly and determined the parts required simply no longer exist, so I'm gonna focus on a different project he and I spoke about previously (not EBR related).

[LeesEBR]

It would be neat if an XB shock could fit (since they can be used to lower 1125's), but the forks can't be slid up the trees due to the bars. Could maybe get some bar risers for a funky look. Then there's looking at chain tension and swingarm geometry as if it were always 2" compressed. Might fiddle with it, but it will require a lot of math I was hoping to avoid.

[gdisaac07]

Theoretically, you could have the entire fork re-cartridged with an Öhlins cartridge and have all the spacers removed. Also, you could look at doing that with K-Tech or the other major brands. You'd have to get a new set of triples made for it though.

The BU-888 shock is too long to work for that.

[LeesEBR]

Re-cartridged? I thought BPF's didn't use cartridges.

[gdisaac07]

Re-cartridged? I thought BPF's didn't use cartridges.

They most definitely do. I had the stock BPF cartridges removed and the Öhlins NIX30 cartridges put in. They were for another bike, but fit the EBR fork body.

[Cooter]

The front could be lowered by shortening the stock spacer, the rear could be lowered by moving or machining a new lower shock mount. The chain shouldn't be an issue as the idler should keep even tension on it through suspension travel.

It would look good, but I wouldn't ride it like that. The "yada, yada, yada" might kill me.

[LeesEBR]

From photos, it appears to be using an SX swingarm, you can tell by the angle of the axle adjuster to the ground. The upper fork tubes appear to be same length, but obviously the internals need to change. When going shorter, you always want to go stiffer to prevent bottoming out. Perhaps shortening the spacer and going with stiffer springs? Dunno what that cost would be.

Kind of hesitant to Erik's claim the Showa stuff likely went back to Showa and no longer exists, since research last night says the two BL's were bought at auction and the third set of equipment was bought by a forum member. So the equipment exists, just need to get in touch with one of those three people to maybe get more information.

Also from google and link following from board to board to facebook to board ... aside from gearing (44t), kickstand and aesthetics (black powder), the BL is just a 2" lowered SX by way of shock and forks.

[TerryS1980]

In the front all they did was slide the triple down a few mm and changed to shorter springs. I asked them at IMS last year about it.

For the rear, there has got to be a way to design a lowering link for that shock. Or just cut the adjuster off, like I did on my other Buells.

[LeesEBR]

In the front all they did was slide the triple down a few mm and changed to shorter springs. I asked them at IMS last year about it.

For the rear, there has got to be a way to design a lowering link for that shock. Or just cut the adjuster off, like I did on my other Buells.
Any idea what springs were used? What other makes/models use BPFs?

Any sort of linkage on the rear shock will likely change the leverage and amount of force on the shock. Can be counteracted by setting preload and c/r up a little more. Would prefer to just get a shorter shock with proper spring.

[TerryS1980]

A quick email to tech@ebr.com shall likely net you all the answers..

I'd rather pay $100 for a hard anodized linkage than $750 for a custom shock any day though.

[StrangeTrip]

Sounds like a LOT of work and $$$$.
When I saw a picture of the BL, I couldn't tell it was lowered 2". Until I read the text.
I like the idea of a lower sitting position, cause I don't like my ass up in the air, nor the downward angle of the seat pushing my balls against the airbox. Lol.
I finally got mine almost level seating and it's more comfortable.
Why do most sport bikes do that? Kawasaki's seems to be more level, so to speak (lower tail section).

[TerryS1980]

It did feel nice to be flat footed when sitting on the Black Lightning at IMS..

[StrangeTrip]

It did feel nice to be flat footed when sitting on the Black Lightning at IMS..

I sit flat footed on mine, now, after I modified the seat frame. I didn't want the engine or chassis any lower cause I have already hit my exhaust pipe. I don't like being on tippy-toes unless I'm on a motorcross bike. And it's easier to swing my leg over. When I first bought it, I was always kicking the turn signal.

[LeesEBR]

A quick email to tech@ebr.com shall likely net you all the answers..

I'd rather pay $100 for a hard anodized linkage than $750 for a custom shock any day though.
Honestly, most of the responses I get from tech seem like I'm bothering them. Makes me hesitant to bug them further.

My bike being in the shop is requiring me to rely on pictures and specs for now, so I'm not sure how possible a linkage is. Once I get mine back, I'm sure I'll be able to figure this out quickly.

[rb21]

I was able to shorten the stock shock on my 1125 a few years back and it worked fine. The parts are cheap and shocks aren't really that complicated to work on. I tried to sell it awhile back - its still in a box in my garage.

https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?47665-Shortened-stock-shock-and-shaved-seat-for-1125/page2

[rb21]

http://www.racetech.com/html_files/LOWERING_SUSPENSION.html

[LeesEBR]

I'm not sure the 1125 shocks work due to the reservoir being fixed at the top. All the EBR shocks have the reservoir either at the bottom or remote. Being without my bike, I can't find a picture to confirm, yet.

Traxxion has EBR springs listed as 38x273x<rate> (http://traxxion.com/?make=2845&model=5448&year_id=5449&s=Fork+Spring+Kit&post_type=product&action=vpf-search) and GSXR springs as 37x240x<rate> (http://traxxion.com/?make=4059&model=4288&year_id=4298&s=Fork+Spring+Kit&post_type=product&action=vpf-search). Now, both bikes use 43mm Showa BPF, so what's the first number?

If we use 38x273x.95 stock, wouldn't a 37x240x1.0 (or 1.05, 1.1, 1.2, etc) have the desired effect? It's 1.29" shorter, and stiffer to compensate...but what's that first number and why are they different if the forks are the same diameter?

[LeesEBR]

1125 shock installed
2001

1190 shock installed
2002

Not the same angle, but should give an idea of the subframe difference. Theoretically the shock would mount fine, I don't think the subframe (or at least the undertray) would fit over it properly.

[rb21]

The Showa race shock has the reservoir fixed on top and it's fit the 1190. Not sure if the reservoir is positioned the same or not.2003[ATTACH]

[LeesEBR]

Interesting. $50 shipped for your shock?

[rb21]

Interesting. $50 shipped for your shock?

$50 plus shipping.

or you may want to just look into adding the shims to your stock 1190 shock - that way your adjusters will still be easily accessible. They should be fairly similar and its not a big deal to do or have a suspension company do - its just some spacers that limit the return on the shock shaft. I think the shims are like $25 and you will need some shock oil and maybe a shock seal and a youtube video on rebuilding a Showa Shock. You may or may not need a shorter shock spring - on the 1125 shock I was able to grind down the pre-load collar by roughly the same length that the shock was shortened so the pre-load values should be close.

[LeesEBR]

$50 plus shipping.
What's shipping to 94509? I dunno weight/size.

[rb21]

Probably somewhere around $25. You may be better off just doing your stock one. I really chimed in on this conversation because it was fairly easy to do - not to sell my shock. I was selling the shock before because I didn't have a bike that it would fit on - now I do.

[Cooter]

1125 on the left, 1190 on the right

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/828/41700348012_a120c8bf94_c.jpg

[LeesEBR]

I'm not sure the 1125 shocks work due to the reservoir being fixed at the top. All the EBR shocks have the reservoir either at the bottom or remote. Being without my bike, I can't find a picture to confirm, yet.

Traxxion has EBR springs listed as 38x273x<rate> (http://traxxion.com/?make=2845&model=5448&year_id=5449&s=Fork+Spring+Kit&post_type=product&action=vpf-search) and GSXR springs as 37x240x<rate> (http://traxxion.com/?make=4059&model=4288&year_id=4298&s=Fork+Spring+Kit&post_type=product&action=vpf-search). Now, both bikes use 43mm Showa BPF, so what's the first number?

If we use 38x273x.95 stock, wouldn't a 37x240x1.0 (or 1.05, 1.1, 1.2, etc) have the desired effect? It's 1.29" shorter, and stiffer to compensate...but what's that first number and why are they different if the forks are the same diameter?

Any comments on the fork springs?

Lots of reading on various brand forums, 1-1.5mm difference in spring width is nothing to worry about. I just need to calculate what rate I need to make up for the missing length.

-EDIT-
So if our 273mm spring has a k-value of .95 kg/mm, that means at full compression of the fork the spring is under 2990 lbs of force. A 240mm spring with a k-value of 1.1 kg/mm (since 1.2 is not offered), accounting for the 1.29" loss of travel, is only under 2500 lbs at full compression.

I feel like my math is wrong somewhere. I'll need to sit on this some more.

[konarider94]

Any comments on the fork springs?

Lots of reading on various brand forums, 1-1.5mm difference in spring width is nothing to worry about. I just need to calculate what rate I need to make up for the missing length.

-EDIT-
So if our 273mm spring has a k-value of .95 kg/mm, that means at full compression of the fork the spring is under 2990 lbs of force. A 240mm spring with a k-value of 1.1 kg/mm (since 1.2 is not offered), accounting for the 1.29" loss of travel, is only under 2500 lbs at full compression.

I feel like my math is wrong somewhere. I'll need to sit on this some more.

Seems pretty high to me especially when you have two forks.

Is the 273mm and 240mm the amount of compression available for the spring? If so see the math below.

.95 kg/mm * 273 mm = 259.35 kg * 2.2 lb/kg = 570.57 lbs for one fork leg x 2 = 1141 lbs total

1.1 kg/mm * 240 mm = 264 kg * 2.2 lb/kg = 580.8 lbs for one fork leg x 2 = 1162 lbs total