Bad Fuel Pump

[Buellster]

So I've been lurking on this forum for a few months gaining info about my 14 1190rx I purchased a few months back. Well now I could use some expertise. Yesterday, I go to start the bike after sitting a week and when I turned the key, there was no "whooshing" sound. I tried to start the bike but it just cranked. I turned the key off and back on and next thing I know, I hear the fuel pump kick on and the bike fires right up. Later on in the night, I have the bike idling showing a friend it and it just cuts off. I turned the key off and back on, but this time no matter what, I cannot seem to get the fuel pump to kick on.

Things I've tried to far:
-Checked fuses - everything looks good. Even wiggled the wires going into the fuse box to make sure it wasn't a bad connection into it.
-Checked the 4 pin connector by the battery and nothing seems to be abnormal, all of the pins look good. Wiggled this connector as well to no avail.
-I definitely hear a relay kick on when I turn the kill switch to "run"

So at this point, I'm wondering if I have a bad connection at the fuel pump or a bad fuel pump. Everything I've researched thus far about the bikes with bad connections at the fuel pump have only caused a low fuel light. I'm definitely in need of help!

UPDATE (5/23/18):
Issue has been fixed! Fuel pump itself was good, but a broken ground connection within the fuel pump assembly was causing it to cut out. More details/pics can be found on page 4 post #32

[Buellster]

I found an electrical diagram for the fuel pump system so later I plan to poke around and see what I can find. Guess I'm on my own on this one.

[Buellster]

Update: power is going to the fuel pump when I checked the harness connector by the battery, so that eliminate the fuse, relays and kill switch circuits.

Turned bikes key on two days after poking around with the multimeter and wouldn't u know it the pump kicked on. I rode the bike for probably an hr and turned it off then back on about a half dozen times with no issues. After riding an hr the bike cuts off and is right back to the fuel pump not kicking on. Next step is pulling the fuel pump out and examining the connects on it.

[MakingPAIN]

Pump could be messed up.. we all know fuel will ruin pumps and injectors if it gets to sit around and collect water and dry out over time. Corrosion. The bike is a 2014, this could be the problem

[buell-fan]

Update: power is going to the fuel pump when I checked the harness connector by the battery, so that eliminate the fuse, relays and kill switch circuits.

Turned bikes key on two days after poking around with the multimeter and wouldn't u know it the pump kicked on. I rode the bike for probably an hr and turned it off then back on about a half dozen times with no issues. After riding an hr the bike cuts off and is right back to the fuel pump not kicking on. Next step is pulling the fuel pump out and examining the connects on it.
Check your wiring harness grounds. There have been a few instances of them coming loose and keeping the bike from running right.

[EBRRider]

So I've been lurking on this forum for a few months gaining info about my 14 1190rx I purchased a few months back. Well now I could use some expertise. Yesterday, I go to start the bike after sitting a week and when I turned the key, there was no "whooshing" sound. I tried to start the bike but it just cranked. I turned the key off and back on and next thing I know, I hear the fuel pump kick on and the bike fires right up. Later on in the night, I have the bike idling showing a friend it and it just cuts off. I turned the key off and back on, but this time no matter what, I cannot seem to get the fuel pump to kick on.

Things I've tried to far:
-Checked fuses - everything looks good. Even wiggled the wires going into the fuse box to make sure it wasn't a bad connection into it.
-Checked the 4 pin connector by the battery and nothing seems to be abnormal, all of the pins look good. Wiggled this connector as well to no avail.
-I definitely hear a relay kick on when I turn the kill switch to "run"

So at this point, I'm wondering if I have a bad connection at the fuel pump or a bad fuel pump. Everything I've researched thus far about the bikes with bad connections at the fuel pump have only caused a low fuel light. I'm definitely in need of help!


Did you look very close to at your plug ?? Here is what to look for .see the second from the top ? That is a known issue.


1579

[Buellster]

Check your wiring harness grounds.
Good idea, I didn't think of that.


Did you look very close to at your plug ?? Here is what to look for .see the second from the top ? That is a known issue.


1579

Thats the one by the battery I checked with the multimeter. All the pins looked good, and i even bent the male ends a bit down to ensure a better connection

[qurtrn10]

If you need to buy a fuel pump, shoot me a PM. I know of a dealership that still has one fuel pump brand new in the box sitting on their shelves that they haven't sold, and I'm sure they would give you a good price.

[Cooter]

You da man....:)

[Buellster]

If you need to buy a fuel pump, shoot me a PM. I know of a dealership that still has one fuel pump brand new in the box sitting on their shelves that they haven't sold, and I'm sure they would give you a good price.

Pm sent. Thank u

[StrangeTrip]

Anybody find an after market fuel pump that works in our bikes?
I got a 2015 SX, that everything worked fine for 1500 miles, first low fuel light coming on at half tank, checked 3rd pin on the plug, etc, has power and ground, died while riding at 60 mph, no start now. P0087 code, fuel pressure.

[buell-fan]

Anybody find an after market fuel pump that works in our bikes?
I got a 2015 SX, that everything worked fine for 1500 miles, first low fuel light coming on at half tank, checked 3rd pin on the plug, etc, has power and ground, died while riding at 60 mph, no start now. P0087 code, fuel pressure.

First check to see if there is actually fuel in the tank. When the floats stop working they gradually loose floatability, so the half tank is an indication of the problem there. That being said, there is an aftermarket pump that the EBR pump parts can be fitted with. They are Buell 1125R fuel pump, a 325 lph fuel pump.

[EBRRider]

Before you buy one I would check your pins again , and you fuses, then I would take it out and hook up 12v to it, check all the wire connection.

https://www.ebay.com/b/Motorcycle-Fuel-Pumps-for-Buell-1125R/177780/bn_50997160

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/713493/794277.html?1492001899

[StrangeTrip]

First check to see if there is actually fuel in the tank. When the floats stop working they gradually loose floatability, so the half tank is an indication of the problem there. That being said, there is an aftermarket pump that the EBR pump parts can be fitted with. They are Buell 1125R fuel pump, a 325 lph fuel pump.

Yes, just filled with fuel, started acting up 60 miles later.
I thought someone on here said the 1125 pump is too long? or something?

[EBRRider]

Like the Buell-Fan said , sounds like its the float, has loss its float-ability, and the pump is ok .

[StrangeTrip]

Like the Buell-Fan said , sounds like its the float, has loss its float-ability, and the pump is ok .

I could see that for the low fuel light, but I got no fuel pressure also.

[Cooter]

Actually you just have a "code" for low fuel pressure. IMO the part is expensive enough to warrant a proper diagnosis before a blind replacement.

[EBRRider]

Mine did it twice, and I had bad pin connection, You might want to double check them, I opened them up and applied dielectric grease, and knock on wood has never happened again,

[StrangeTrip]

Well, hello my Cali friends, it set the code when it quit running, checked the pigtail to the pump and I have power and ground, it's possible a bad connection at the pump, but from seeing the others, I'm thinking I got the version B pump, with no bad crimps?
But yes, I'll pull it out for furthur diagnosis, before ordering a new one.
Thank's to all responders.

[StrangeTrip]

Mine did it twice, and I had bad pin connection, You might want to double check them, I opened them up and applied dielectric grease, and knock on wood has never happened again,

Yes, checked twice, I am very familiar with weatherpak connectors, normally they are flawless, as long as you are careful with them. I am now am checking on pump side of plug connector and have continuity thru the plug, so good.

[EBRRider]

keep us posted

[StrangeTrip]

OK, will do.
Just hooked my fuel pressure gauge to verify NO pressure.
I'll pull it and do more testing, may be a couple days

[StrangeTrip]

Got the pump out this morning, got it on the bench to test it, gave it power and ground and NO work. Smacked on the side of the workbench and started working. Kinda like a bad starter motor armature. It was the Version B pump, no crimps. I got a US made, Walbro GSS-342 to put in, after checking the specs on them all. I've used the chinese pumps in low HP applications and they were OK, but in this beast, I went american made. It was NOT an exact fit, you need to do some engineering (minor) to get it in there.

[Cooter]

Very good info, thank you!
Ive had great luck with the Walbro pumps.

[EBRRider]

Yes, Nothing like a good smack to test motors, we have all done this, Sounds like you found a good fix with the Walbro GSS-342 pump, Share some pics if you can. What did you have do modify to make it fit?


https://www.amazon.com/Walbro-GSS342-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000EVN7W8

[StrangeTrip]

The bracket/sleeve that holds the pump needed opening up slightly, you got to splice in the Walbro elec. connector, 1810I soldered, no crimps, and I jammed the float in the UP position, with a hose clamp, to keep the low fuel light from coming on. I'll just watch my miles, like I have on every other bike I've owned.

In full disclosure, I brain farted and didn't take any pics, I stole this off a guy on EBAY, selling a used one that looked just like mine. Lol.

[EBRRider]

Looks good , does the float seem gas logged? Can you dry it out and then seal it so it will float ?

[StrangeTrip]

No, couldn't tell. Maybe seal it with something that holds up to fuel? I was just tired of it coming on and off at random.

[Cooter]

The only sealers I'm aware of that are rated to be submerged in gas is Permatex 1 or 2. One stays soft and one hardens as hard as JB weld!

Maybe some of that gas tank restore stuff you swish around old car tanks to restore them? Certainly not silicone RTV:(

[rb21]

You might check with EBR parts - may be able to hook you up with a float that floats.

[Buellster]

UPDATE:

After moving and storing the bike, I've finally had time to diagnose and figure my issue out. I had a bad ground inside the 90* connector that sits on top of the fuel pump assembly. Not sure how it even happened bc the piece is covered in potting compound. I'll and load photos at some point.


I got a US made, Walbro GSS-342 to put in, after checking the specs on them all. I've used the chinese pumps in low HP applications and they were OK, but in this beast, I went american made. It was NOT an exact fit, you need to do some engineering (minor) to get it in there.

Any issues running with this pump?

[Buellster]

This was the connector on the top of the fuel pump assembly that was bad (broken ground connection within) on my 2014.
1988

I couldn't find a reasonably priced new EBR fuel pump assembly so I ended up using an 1125 fuel pump assembly after switching over the 1125's thermistor fuel level system for the 1190's float style. Bike is finally (after a year of being down) back up and running.

For those interested. This is the Buell 1125 fuel pump assembly:
1989

Verses the EBR 1190 fuel pump assembly (with aftermarket float):
1990

[golfman1966]

I may be out of touch, but I haven't seen anyone suggest using the 1125 fuel pump in our bikes. They are certainly cheaper (a quick search yields a $255 price) and the o-rings are also available for less than $6.00 for a pair. I saw in your post in another thread that the Carter pump number even appears to be the same.

I'm curious as to whether the thermistor fuel level system would also work on our bikes. I wonder why the change from Buell to EBR on that?

[Buellster]

I believe the pumps between the 1125 and 1190 to be the same since both have the 61522 etched on them like I mentioned in my other threads post, but didn't want to chance it throwing everything back together and the bike not running right. My issue was wiring within the 1190 fuel assembly, so I was able to use my stock 1190 pump in the 1125 assembly. Also Carter, whom makes the pumps, is very quiet regarding the specs on their propriety pumps. You're correct in pricing though, 1125 replacements can be had for MUCH cheaper than 1190 pumps. I bought the 1125 assembly I retrofitted into my EBR for $55 plus shipping off ebay! Now thats compared to used 1190 assemblies going for $250ish and being quoted $400 for a new unit from a last remaining dealer with one.

As for the fuel light systems, I thought about how both work off resistance and researched a little about them. The thermistor style reads temp of the fuel. Then combined with ambient air temp readings by I imagine other sensors and the ECM then determines low fuel when no fuel is on the sensor to "cool" it. From what I read, the float style is more reliable over the thermistor style. Even then, I don't believe the 1190 is equipped with the other items needed to use the thermistor. So in sum, while the 1190s float isn't exactly ideal, I believe it's at least more reliable over the 1125s system.