PDA

View Full Version : 1190RS vs 1190RX What will be the difference?



Jon / AF1 Racing
10-01-2012, 05:56 PM
According to already released details, the 1190RX is going to share the same frame, same swingarm, same engine, and the same rear subframe.

So the big question: How to save $20k with wheels, suspension, bodywork and electronics.

1)Wheels - The most expensive magnesium wheels would be about $4000 for the pair. A pair of cast aluminum wheels, maybe cost of about $600 - Savings of $3400

2)Suspension - A full setup of Ohlins will run you around $4000 as well for the front and rear. A pair of Showa forks, and a matching level shock will run you about $800 - Savings $3200

3)Bodywork - A full carbon bodywork set ads a $4000 retail premium to the 1190RS. Seems rather pricey, but we will stick with that number for the sake of argument - Savings $0 since we are not comparing the carbon edition.

4)Electronics - A serious datalogging and fully programmable electronics package can easily set you back $10k in the racing world. Take that down to consumer level, and we might be looking at $1500 worth of equipment. Savings $8500

Tally that up and I can see how the 1190RS is an extra $20k. There is a lot more to this equation, such as production costs in relation to quantity, engineering costs spread over a few vs. many units, etc.

Whatever the actual numbers may be, the 1190RX s going to be the same potent bike, just a different level of components.

If anyone has actual specs and prices on the components used on the 1190RS, please share.

methyman
10-01-2012, 07:50 PM
What about a real seat versus that thin pan that the 1190RS has?

Scott
10-01-2012, 08:20 PM
There is a lot more to this equation, such as production costs in relation to quantity, engineering costs spread over a few vs. many units, etc.



I think this is the key.

Imagine a supplier that has to invest $20,000 in tooling and set-up costs to make a certain part. Labor and materials for each part run $5 no matter how many parts are made. Making 100 of those parts will cost $20,500 total or $205 per part.

Now make 5000 and the cost will be $45,000 total or $9 per part for the exact same part.



As for the bike, I'm guessing the exhaust may be simplified into a smaller, neater single unit rather than the somewhat awkward two stage unit.

Traction control? There have been some rumors that traction control is coming, but will there be street electronics or will it be a race only system? My guess would be the basic bike won't have any fancy electronics, but future, higher priced variations might.

And I'm curious if there will be a second generation, limited run 1190RS (or some other designation maybe 1190RX LTD or something) that would incorporate some things they've learned but still use the high end components for AMA racing.

WSBK allows swapping out suspensions etc. for higher end units but AMA limits modifications. They could continue to run the current 1190RS with tweaks here and there for the foreseeable future, but I have to imagine they'd like to incorporate some improvements beyond what they can do with current AMA homologation limits.

boohoo
10-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Will the engine be the same? There are a lot of high end parts in the RS maybe the RX will be a bit more like a big bore 1125 without all the titanium theres a few $ saved

Doosh
10-01-2012, 09:36 PM
I don't see the point in "good" suspension in an OEM. You are just going to replace it, anyway, so why raise the cost of the bike for average stuff when there's no way they would deliver the machine with something good like AK-Gas, anyway?

Put the cheapest thing possible on it. Any way I can buy one without any suspension, no lights, no title, no mirrors, no exhaust, etc. and all the other crap I'm just going to take off and throw away anyway?

Jon / AF1 Racing
10-01-2012, 10:41 PM
Will the engine be the same? There are a lot of high end parts in the RS maybe the RX will be a bit more like a big bore 1125 without all the titanium theres a few $ saved

True, they will be replacing those billet pistons with forged and they will be replacing titanium with obtainium.

crotchrocket.tv
10-01-2012, 11:33 PM
4)Electronics - A serious datalogging and fully programmable electronics package can easily set you back $10k in the racing world. Take that down to consumer level, and we might be looking at $1500 worth of equipment. Savings $8500

The 1190RS does not have any data logging as it comes from EBR. It comes with the AIM MXL dash, but not the one with data logging capabilities. It does have a lap timer function which requires the purchase of the sensor and becon from AIM. The race bikes use a 2D data logger system.

GyTe
10-02-2012, 04:21 AM
I hope that someone will put some pictures... :)

Hughlysses
10-02-2012, 06:49 PM
According to the videos EBR posted on youtube some time back, the 1190RS engines start out as standard 1125 engines. Each of those engines has to be disassembled, then many of the parts are discarded. New or re-worked parts including heads, valves, cams, springs, cylinders, pistons, rods, and the crank are installed and the engine is reassembled. That's a big waste of labor and material. If the 1190RX/SX/AX engines are built new with all the required parts on a production line, it seems the cost of the engines will be MUCH less than the 1190RS.

Scott
10-03-2012, 07:57 AM
According to the videos EBR posted on youtube some time back, the 1190RS engines start out as standard 1125 engines. Each of those engines has to be disassembled, then many of the parts are discarded. New or re-worked parts including heads, valves, cams, springs, cylinders, pistons, rods, and the crank are installed and the engine is reassembled. That's a big waste of labor and material. If the 1190RX/SX/AX engines are built new with all the required parts on a production line, it seems the cost of the engines will be MUCH less than the 1190RS.

I'm really interested to see the new engine. It's been generally reported that EBR now has the rights to make the engine. I don't know if they'll actually make them in-house or work with a subcontactor, but it seems that somebody in the US will be making an engine based on the 1190.

And while they may not use as much titanium, they've probably learned a LOT from the racing they've been doing and this third generation engine could have some significant improvements over the current 1190 even with less expensive components. The engineers have a lot of data and they know which parts break first when the thing is pushed to the limits. The weak links can be strengthened and it may be possible to trim other parts - that are stronger than they need to be - down to save some weight there.

Superficially, I would imagine the 1125, 1190RS and 1190RX engines will seem very similar, but the components are likely to have some key differences with the 1190RX version likely being one of the best V-Twin motorcycle engines ever made.

I expect Ducati will still have the edge, but it will be fun to see EBR work to close that gap.

Jon / AF1 Racing
10-03-2012, 10:15 AM
Apparently EBR inherited a number of 1125 engines which they rebuilt into the 1190's. That was purely in order to conserve resources. I didn't hear a number, but they ran out of those 1125's early on. Now the engines are essentially built from scratch in house. Most of the engine is built in the USA, with some parts like cams, cranks, shafts and gears still cast / forged at what I assume is Rotax. Story is EBR does own the rights to the engine and can build however they see fit, with whomever they see fit.

33/1190rs
10-05-2012, 10:37 PM
I have idea on engines. 1190rs is race bike with a very well thought out race engine. I looked at 1190rs engine componets when i picked up my bike. I told michael richter piston was too beautiful too put in engine should be put on desk to be admired. But all parts are very purpose built and work very well for that purpose. I saw and road w/bike that had 1190 engine probably 145hp, maybe more, but great street engine. You can not put 1190rs engine in neww bike and sell that for $19000.00. I ride at 10000 ft elevation and running 3rd-4th with rear tiretrying to break loose and front tire skipping off ground at 125 mph it is a ride! You also would not want 1190rs engine uly because it just wants run! The bike is the most incredible ride. I'm running curves,passing and you just look where you want to go and lean and the bike is there, i feel like i'm running 50 mph and look down and goin 125mph,its so light! I cant thank erik,tony, john ,michael,mike,john,kemp,kim and all the people at ebr for building me the greatest motorcycle in the world! I paid the price and think i got one hell of a deal after experiencing this awsome ride! The orange 1190rs is alive and ripping in colorado-thanks ebr

Scott
07-16-2013, 12:48 PM
I'm curious if we'll see anything this weekend. I've seen a few different places that something would be shown in July and if that's correct, it seems like the Laguna Seca Moto GP/AMA races would be the perfect place to show it to an enthusiastic crowd.

Classax
10-22-2013, 03:22 PM
Looking at the photos and having had a chance to play with an RS(#10) in the flesh. I hope they improve the steering angle from lock to lock. It wasn't the same throw side to side and it was really shallow.Great at speed but now way you could do a U turn in?on a side street. I hope they Don't change the mirror positions though, best I have ever seen on a sport bike hands down. They'ed have to come off for sure for trackdays but on the steet, that would be money. Looks like the chain idler gear is still there to. Its amazing how that helps put the power down. I'm on the fence about no ABS. Traction control yes, but ABS, hmm on most trackdays we turn it off, but on a street bike I can see the advantages. I think the bike will really suffer for not having wheelie control. 102fr/lbs with about 80+ at 4k and up? That's gonna be a handful. So are officially calling it "The Perscription" or what?

Ed / AF1 Racing
10-22-2013, 05:47 PM
Looking at the photos and having had a chance to play with an RS(#10) in the flesh. I hope they improve the steering angle from lock to lock. It wasn't the same throw side to side and it was really shallow.Great at speed but now way you could do a U turn in?on a side street. I hope they Don't change the mirror positions though, best I have ever seen on a sport bike hands down. They'ed have to come off for sure for trackdays but on the steet, that would be money. Looks like the chain idler gear is still there to. Its amazing how that helps put the power down. I'm on the fence about no ABS. Traction control yes, but ABS, hmm on most trackdays we turn it off, but on a street bike I can see the advantages. I think the bike will really suffer for not having wheelie control. 102fr/lbs with about 80+ at 4k and up? That's gonna be a handful. So are officially calling it "The Perscription" or what?

The engineers did say they increased the lock-to-lock on the RX streetbike vs RS.

Classax
10-23-2013, 05:43 PM
That's cool Ed, thanks! The more I think about the exhaust, 1/4 wave resonators are basically used to get rid of annoying drone not improve back pressure and midrange numbers. You usually only have that problem on really BIG power motors ( high hp/displacement unit) with really free induction and exhaust. Motors making extreme use of ram air also suffer from it. Aircraft engines deal with it by ignoring it and wearing hearing protection. Buell has tended to go with big thin airboxes that emit a lot of induction noise in the past. If the exhaust note drone is at the right frequency for the induction noise its magic but if not it gets really annoying. On a race bike no problem but on a street bike it could get old real quick. It all seems to indicate the motor is in a REALLY high state of tune and moving a lot of air from stock. I'd love to see a shorty on there but not if it meant I couldn't enjoy the ride because the sound track was rattling my teeth. Been there done that and it wasn't worth it.

Doosh
10-24-2013, 11:05 AM
The lock-to-lock is limited by the damper and the lower triple clamp, along with a small piece of aluminum fastened just above the lower triple to the main chassis. You can get more lock-to-lock by removing it or milling (trimming) it down a bit, but be really careful -- it's easy with clip-ons to get into a situation where you can smash your hand into the tank or even get the steering stuck in a full lock with the friction between the bar, your hand and the tank holding it there.

Classax
10-24-2013, 06:23 PM
I hear you Doosh, most sport bikes suffer from the same problem on steerring head angle at the extremes. The other thing that has me wondering is the slipper clutch and how well its going to work. I like that we wont have to rotate the engine down to do valve adjustement. IS it December yet?

Doosh
10-24-2013, 06:40 PM
The other thing that has me wondering is the slipper clutch and how well its going to work.

So far as I can tell, it's the same clutch that was in the 1125r, and it depends on throttle body vacuum for it's "slip effect". With the 1125r, you had to be pretty ham-fisted to get any slip at all out of it.

The RS used a Suter slipper clutch. That's a really nice clutch. It's always an upgrade option for the RX...

Classax
11-04-2013, 12:52 PM
Anybody know about the steering damper. Erik typically avoids them but both the RS and RX have one. I notice they are not adjustable. So what type are they are the Constant or Reactive type dampers?

Doosh
11-04-2013, 01:55 PM
Anybody know about the steering damper. Erik typically avoids them but both the RS and RX have one. I notice they are not adjustable. So what type are they are the Constant or Reactive type dampers?

Looks a lot like the kind you pull off and replace with a proper Ohlins unit...

Classax
11-04-2013, 02:31 PM
Looks a lot like the kind you pull off and replace with a proper Ohlins unit...

I have found I prefer the feel of the reactive types for the street. Track it's about wash between the two.

Classax
11-05-2013, 03:06 PM
A great post by an RS ownerhttp://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/725755.html?1383682217

Plotter
07-12-2015, 03:25 PM
Can anybody tell me the weight savings in parts from the RS to the RX?