EBR 1190 Adventure Tourer AX

[Hoak]

From what I gather re-reading your posts you seem to want a sub-500cc dirt bike with some pavement capabilities.

No, I used KTM's rally machine as a more apt illustration of form that follows function, and I've given far more attention to Carducci and Buell's XB12X in this thread then KTM's 450 rally toaster. The point made is that less weight, power:weight, lower CG, and reliability are vastly more important to real 'world crosser' ADV capability then gross power, quarter mile time on pavement, and road sofa feature float.

That doesn't seem to fit with the motorcycle industry's interpretation of an adventure motorcycle.

Then 'the industry' has clearly failed with the lipstick on the cruiser and sport bike approach as they've created a saturated segment of bloat sofas on wheels have the highest ratio of buyer remorse and disappointment in the market, and the sales volume isn't going to this segment of the ADV market either.

EBR could dust off the plans for the stillborn 450cc Buell dirt-only motorcycle, make some minor changes, and I think they'd have a motorcycle very close to what you're asking for.

No, this isn't what I've said, suggested or implied -- this wild interpretation is either you trolling and pushing your pet wish, some kind of misunderstanding or unwillingness to make that effort on your part. Neither are the design concepts of what make a good ADV machine exclusively mine, they're coveted by a very large and lucrative segment of the market that have no real modern dedicated machine that satisfies them, and usually end up building or re-building their own along the lines of what you see described and shown on the ADV Rider forums.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, again, here in bullet format is a conceptual summery of what's needed and coveted by riders like me:

· endurance
· economy
· fuel capacity
· low weight
· low center of gravity
· wheel size & geometry that emphasizes dynamic stability over turning performance
· long suspension travel
· simplicity that reinforces maintenance autonomy
· ruggedness that is both fall and fail safe

These are concepts not concrete design absolutes that are prevailed upon by physics, materials science, and practical production costs that in turn confer form that follows function for the real world demands of a machine that can endure and manage around the world, all surface, inclement adventure riding -- and what most riders end up wanting or needing in bikes used this way generally equates to:

· wet weight under 400 pounds
· fuel capacity and economy to go at least 300 miles
· a center of gravity as low as all design considerations allow
· wire wheels with a 21 inch hoop up front
· at least ten inches of suspension travel loaded
· all foo-foo and farkels as options not mandated 'standard features'
· sub one liter displacement
· over engineering for frame and suspension stress
· wide ratio transmission

The model for this has long been the open-class Paris Dakar Rally bike, which when it was allowed was (and remains) the fastest all-surface machines on the planet. What this translates to as far as concretes in the bikes ADV fans like me buy and build encompasses a wide range of approaches in method and execution like the Wunderlich BMW F800GS, to a lot of air-cooled BMW R80 derived boxers, HD Sportster's like Carducci, all sorts of rally kits selling in the tens of thousands for Dual Sport, Enduro, and Off Road Bikes, and even Works Rally Bikes consumers can buy.

But since you keep trying to impeach the veracity and applicably of my preferences with your interpretation of what my dream ADV bike would be, and to get you to knock this sh*t off once and for all, here's one illustration of some high points of what could satisfy me and a considerable audience with similar expectations and goals:

· air-cooled low angle 700-800 cc parallel twin
· six speed WR transmission
· cradle and truss frame
· stressed modular bolt-on fuel nacelle*
· very fat large bore forks
· high breathing intake snorkels similar to Honda, KTM & BMW
· net suspension travel of 12"
· integrated frame mounts for all accessories
· rally furniture set for low wind drag coefficient at a very fast cruise
· weigh about 400 lbs wet (or less)
· range fully laden ~ 400 miles statute with rider and load
· power output would be 'sufficient'
· final drive would be Buell's constant tension belt


*similar to Buell approach but is bolt on/off section of frame

Lest you say it can't be done, it has; in fact nearly a decade ago, and it offered 0-60 times that would beat a Buell XB12X... As far as how this might look, the layout could be something like this (note the bike depicted is not a twin, and not air-cooled, it's a water cooled single):



With modern Rally furniture layout similar to this (not this is not the same bike as the above, and is not a twin or air-cooled either):



I'm not dead set on any of this, it's an illustration, an example, and if if Buell ended up with a short stroke low profile water cooled V engine like the Highland V-Twin or some derivative Rotax twin that would be fine too, or it would be really cool to see Rotax or some other power plant build their own modern flat twin air-cooled 'boxer' for all the advantages it has to offer this class of bike and the inefficiency it obviates when incorporating shaft final drive.

Do I honestly imagine EBR will build such a bike? I haven't the faintest idea; it does however appear that the AX is still on the drawing board and in the planning phase, and there are a litany of reasons EBR might build a bike coveted by real adventure riders rather then a recapitulation of the XB12X, or worse a sport-bike with abject 'adventure' pretension. I'll reiterate those and pile them on in a later post..

[gbtw]

Lest you say it can't be done, it has; in fact nearly a decade ago, and it offered 0-60 times that would beat a Buell XB12X... As far as how this might look, the layout could be something like this (note the bike depicted is not a twin, and not air-cooled, it's a water cooled single):

Actually, isn't that a far superior Parallel twin :) The XTZ750 (consumer model of this one) is actually on the list as a possible replacement if my F800GS craps out.