Is There Any Hope for a Revived EBR?

[Scott]

I suspect many of you feel similar to me in that I've pretty much given up. It seems like Buell/EBR is a thing of the past and we may never see an American Sport-bike again.

But there are forces that seem like they should work in favor of a new EBR at some point.

For one thing, LAP right now is sitting on an asset that they believe is worth $500,000 plus. Whatever you may think of LAP, they're not stupid, they don't throw money away and they know the motorcycle industry.

If they can't sell that EBR IP, there's a good chance they'll end up losing money on the whole thing, and I doubt they expect to come out of this losing money.

And with recent rumors that both Harley and Polaris/Indian were interested in buying Ducati, it seems absolutely crazy that they wouldn't also be considering buying EBR.

Sure, Ducati is a very different company with a rich heritage, but if both Harley and Polaris think the future is bright for Ducati and the kind of bikes they make, why not invest a tiny fraction of what it would cost to buy Ducati and buy EBR?

EBR has a bike that's nearly there. With a little work (and information that was learned from the racing program) I have no doubt either Harley or Polaris (or some other company) could refine the EBR design to make it more competitive on the race-track. Then invest another tiny fraction of that Ducati money into a serious MotoAmerica race team.

Win a few races and that improved EBR bike could easily sell for $20,000 and then somebody has the genesis for an "American Ducati".

It seems to make too much sense for somebody to not risk the relatively small capital it would take. But it's not my money and the people who do have the money obviously aren't doing that.

I can assure you that if I win the lottery, the first call I'll make will be to LAP.

[Purves]

As some of you may agree- Harley should've used Buell as a way to diversify their portfolio in order to reach a broader range of motorcycle enthusiasts. Instead they bastardized the brand (change this, build it this way instead, Erik) and only considered it as a stepping stone to a cruiser. I think if BMC was still around today, the brand could be a great way for HD to reach the Millennials... Think Scrambler Ducati, only Scrambler Buell.
Harley is good at retailing clothes… They could’ve offered a trendy Scrambler Buell line of skinny jeans, plad shirts and orange lensed Aviator sunglasses. They could sponsor Safe Zones on liberal arts college campuses. (yes, I am going over the top here).
A visionary company diversifies itself. Look at how 3M evolved over the years. It started off as a coal company and now they sell tape. Harley is not a visionary company. They were for the longest time a cash cow and are now starting to feel the pain of not evolving with the times.
HD Motorcycles come with a stigma that some people do not want to associate with. I would think the Buell line (not EBR) if properly utilized could be a success.
I’m rambling… now to the OP’s point:
I hate to say it but I don't think the EBR IP is worth pursuing for a lot of larger companies like PII... I think they have their own technology that they could pursue if they desired to enter into the superbike category. As for HD- they own the rights to the Buell name. I would "think" BMC is worth more than EBR. Would you say that more people are familiar with Buell American Motorcycles than Erik Buell Racing? What is more marketable? Just my thoughts- what do I know...

Now, a small boutique company likes Motus? Possibly. Would be cool to see it happen!

[Hughlysses]

Former Buell and EBR engineer Steve Anderson chimed in on a thread about EBR on Badweb a few weeks ago. We were discussing the planned line of 3-cylinder middleweight bikes that Buell was working on prior to Buell's closure. He provided this very interesting bit of info about the follow up to this project at EBR:

Erik came up with a new plan for a middleweight at EBR, which would have been a parallel Twin instead of a Triple. It was a very advanced engine, designed by an impressive team with a lot of experience. The engine itself was very light and compact, and would have far exceeded XB12 power levels in 800-850cc form. It's probably not that different from what KTM is coming out with this fall, though likely somewhat lighter and more powerful. It might have been manufactured by Hero, or shared with Hero, partly sourced in India and elsewhere and assembled in East Troy. But the Hero plans went astray, and the engine design was entirely funded by EBR. It was never tooled or even fully prototyped.

You have to figure that design is included in the IP held by LAP. Erik hinted that a sub-$10k bike was just a few months away from production after EBR went into receivership; I'll bet this was it. To me, this seems like an even more valuable asset in EBR's portfolio. I really think if Hero had just stuck with the plan for another 2 or 3 months, EBR could have become self-sufficient. This bike would have attracted a lot of younger buyers to the brand.

It sure seems like someone would have an interest in picking up this design and running with it.

[Scott]

As some of you may agree- Harley should've used Buell as a way to diversify their portfolio in order to reach a broader range of motorcycle enthusiasts. Instead they bastardized the brand (change this, build it this way instead, Erik) and only considered it as a stepping stone to a cruiser. I think if BMC was still around today, the brand could be a great way for HD to reach the Millennials... Think Scrambler Ducati, only Scrambler Buell.
Harley is good at retailing clothes… They could’ve offered a trendy Scrambler Buell line of skinny jeans, plad shirts and orange lensed Aviator sunglasses. They could sponsor Safe Zones on liberal arts college campuses. (yes, I am going over the top here).
A visionary company diversifies itself. Look at how 3M evolved over the years. It started off as a coal company and now they sell tape. Harley is not a visionary company. They were for the longest time a cash cow and are now starting to feel the pain of not evolving with the times.
HD Motorcycles come with a stigma that some people do not want to associate with. I would think the Buell line (not EBR) if properly utilized could be a success.
I’m rambling… now to the OP’s point:
I hate to say it but I don't think the EBR IP is worth pursuing for a lot of larger companies like PII... I think they have their own technology that they could pursue if they desired to enter into the superbike category. As for HD- they own the rights to the Buell name. I would "think" BMC is worth more than EBR. Would you say that more people are familiar with Buell American Motorcycles than Erik Buell Racing? What is more marketable? Just my thoughts- what do I know...

Now, a small boutique company likes Motus? Possibly. Would be cool to see it happen!

Yeah, if the rumors of Harley being interested in buying Ducati are true, it's ironic that, with better management and allowing Buell to be Buell (and then sticking through the tough times) Buell could probably rival Ducati right now. If we went back in time, there was probably a point at which Buell under Harley wasn't much smaller than Ducati, but Ducati had the freedom to do what they and their customers wanted and Buell was hobbled by Harley.

[Scott]

Former Buell and EBR engineer Steve Anderson chimed in on a thread about EBR on Badweb a few weeks ago. We were discussing the planned line of 3-cylinder middleweight bikes that Buell was working on prior to Buell's closure. He provided this very interesting bit of info about the follow up to this project at EBR:



You have to figure that design is included in the IP held by LAP. Erik hinted that a sub-$10k bike was just a few months away from production after EBR went into receivership; I'll bet this was it. To me, this seems like an even more valuable asset in EBR's portfolio. I really think if Hero had just stuck with the plan for another 2 or 3 months, EBR could have become self-sufficient. This bike would have attracted a lot of younger buyers to the brand.

It sure seems like someone would have an interest in picking up this design and running with it.

That's the exact bike I want. Just makes it more disappointing.

Let's just hope LAP can make the right sale's pitch to the right person.

It does seem like they're trying to keep something running. I'm guessing part of what they need is for the old bikes to get off the dealer floors, if possible. Any potential buyer is not going to want to have to compete with dirt-cheap leftover models.

[Hughlysses]

Hell, Steve got me interested in the KTM: the 790 Duke. They have a hell of a promo video showing a rider ripping it up. That bike won't be released until late this year or early next. Just think if EBR had had something similar in their showrooms ~1 year ago.

[Purves]

Yeah, if the rumors of Harley being interested in buying Ducati are true, it's ironic that, with better management and allowing Buell to be Buell (and then sticking through the tough times) Buell could probably rival Ducati right now. If we went back in time, there was probably a point at which Buell under Harley wasn't much smaller than Ducati, but Ducati had the freedom to do what they and their customers wanted and Buell was hobbled by Harley.

I agree. Sad, isn't it?

[Purves]

Former Buell and EBR engineer Steve Anderson chimed in on a thread about EBR on Badweb a few weeks ago. We were discussing the planned line of 3-cylinder middleweight bikes that Buell was working on prior to Buell's closure. He provided this very interesting bit of info about the follow up to this project at EBR:



You have to figure that design is included in the IP held by LAP. Erik hinted that a sub-$10k bike was just a few months away from production after EBR went into receivership; I'll bet this was it. To me, this seems like an even more valuable asset in EBR's portfolio. I really think if Hero had just stuck with the plan for another 2 or 3 months, EBR could have become self-sufficient. This bike would have attracted a lot of younger buyers to the brand.

It sure seems like someone would have an interest in picking up this design and running with it.

Could be a nice starter package for Motus or Arch... : )

[Cooter]

"Scrambler Buell line of skinny jeans, plad shirts and orange lensed Aviator sunglasses" so funny, and so sadly very true.

IMO, The biggest hurdle for EBR was being late to the game. It's a world class bike to be sure! When it was designed in 2012.

Look at what every other MFG offers in an electronic package today. A 225hp super bike with heated grips, cruise control, Lean angle sensitive ABS, Ride Modes... It's not just the pretty TFT screen with the angle meter... Heck the new RSV-4 can be programmed for different rev limits, traction control, wheelie control, etc... PER CORNER... with your i-Phone.

People WANT that and EBR never had the massive capital to design it on the RX/SX. I'm an analog guy and a purist, so I appreciate my SX as such but most people like the 'safety' of intervening computer controls:( Erik will never be 'that guy'.

[1190SX]

I like made in America as much as the next guy, but 20k for an EBR? I'll buy another BMW or a Ducati